Ericson 30+ 1983 - Discovery - Port leaks, Bottom Paint

Eric,

Yes, doesn't seem very robust but that's the attachment. I suggest laying a heavy bead of Life-Caulk into the gap. It's a caulk not an adhesive. There is no reason to use a strong adhesive.

Take a look through my report, here. You may have a similar teak laminate issue.

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/entry.php?121-Portlights-and-Veneer

CW-

Thank you for the input -- I have been on the edge trying to understand how much stick is enough ... 3M4000 "back of the envelope" calculations were pointing to a significant amount of force to remove with my top concern being damage/destruction of the light's frame during future removal and second in priority is my sanity performing such a removal.

You recommend Life-Caulk ... where, in your opinion, does "caulk" (in general terms) fit on the spectrum of adhesives and sealants? Less adhesive than something advertised as an adhesive and less seal than something advertised as a sealant? ... maybe a filler that has some structure (not to be structurally relied upon), some sealant properties (that appear sufficient), and some adhesive qualities (sufficient when backed by some minimal mechanical attachment) ... might be best described as mana for (my) portlights if it is really a good balance of these physical qualities.



(attached table is from http://www.boatus.com/magazine/2013/April/how-to-pick-the-right-sealant.asp)

Can you confirm you used "kitchen plastic wrap" for a release layer between wood blocks during the epoxy/fill job? Do you recall which brand you used? My consumer opinion is that not all plastic wrap is equal ...

The chart knows more than I do. A heavy bead of Life-Caulk certainly grips everything mighty hard and fills gaps.

Personally I avoid silicone because it leaves a a residue, but really all I'm arguing against is 5200 or other powerful adhesives.

Regarding plastic wrap, as I recall I cut open big plastic baggies just to have something a little thicker than the microfilm we use in the kitchen.

I definitely wasn't in the 5200 camp, but understanding the difference between 4200, 4000UV, and (now) Life-Caulk might be a nice practical exercise to kill some time between now and when the temp in eastern VA rises above 40 deg F to do final wood seal/epoxy and light install ... I wager that MJS votes against 4200 for his application as to not repeat his current experience!

Researching standard test set-ups that might expose the practical differences ... no one should hold their breath ...

Port Removal continued

My opinion of 3M4200 - bleeding fingers keep me from repeated my opinion in polite company...

You can tell there is a lot of snow in Virginia and Maryland, everyone is catching up their reading!

MJS

Captain-Tolleys-Creeping-Crack cure

The frames do not leak. I get water from the glass to frame connection as the little troughs in 2 of my frames fill up when driven rain hits them. I am always one to do the easiest and simplest fix first but don't want to do a wasted fix only to go deeper to really fix stuff.
I've been looking at this product for the fix:

http://www.amazon.com/Captain-Tolle...JQ6XHWC/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_sims?ie=UTF8#Ask

Just drizzle it on/in the glass to aluminum gap and Voila! Has anyone out there tried this cure?

Some testimonials to Creeping Crack Cure here:

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?5727-Leaky-genoa-track-how-to-fix

Thank you, Christian. Also thank you for being a wizard with the search function of this site. Would you hold an online workshop? Maybe a powerpoint with screen shots or something. I use the search box located at the upper right of this page and either get nothing or 47 links.

Anyway, I will order the Captain Tolley stuff and give it a try. To market, to market....

The advice given by those in the know is to search in Google starting with "ericsonyachts.org" followed by your topic of interest. Works much better that way.

Captain Tolleys Crack Cure

Hi Respected Sailors
I use the Tollys almost every season. The boat takes a hour ride every year to my back yard. I think the truck vibration cracks it loose from the ports. Good stuff it just fills in nicely and cleans up easily when wet.
Best Regards
Pat O'Connell
1981 E28+

JPS27 said:

The advice given by those in the know is to search in Google starting with "ericsonyachts.org" followed by your topic of interest. Works much better that way.

Click to expand...

Ah ha! Thanks JPS27. Also I wrote a couple private messages back to you but I am affraid you didn't get them. Just asking how the boat is coming and it would be fun to meet up out in the harbor. We were out today.

Just an "in-progress" update and the plan -- thanks to all for your input, ideas, and suggestions!

Prepped the wood delimitation area (partially) and made templates for wood blocks to re-compress wood for full epoxy treatment (looks better in this photo than actual). I used an electric sander but think I need a sander with a "triangular" shaped surface to do the edges sufficiently.



Based on everyone's input, I will do Smiths Epoxy (for rot/water barrier) when a weather cooperates (looks like Smith's likes 40+ F temps) but I am fine waiting while the location dries further out before proceeding and then epoxy the area to re-laminate the wood. ** post update: I didn't realize Smith's has a low temp variant ... looking into that but still not in a huge rush **

This week, I'll re-seal the window into the frame w/ Dow Corning 795 ... will use Life-Caulk for the primary adhesive/sealant for the final frame insertion.

Will update the thread after all epoxy steps to report on progress and ease of working with the selected expoxies & sealants (first time for me on all).

2nd port removal status

Back to the ports

with a razor blade, I removed excess silicone that had oozed out of gasket onto the glass.
drilled out SS screws, and squeezed frames together enough to secure them with new screws.

Additional protective measures include administering Captain Tolley around glass to seal gasket/glass gaps.

mjs

MJS- Standing by for your update! I just purchased some Capt Tolly's but I am not sure I need it, but it sounds like some insurance...

All- For others, there are two different portlight removal/reinstall cases mixed in this thread ... I doubt it would be easy to demux them now, but here is my update:

Past Reported (for EMKoper):
1) Took hours to remove starboard fixed portlight, key tool discovered was a cheap, electric paint scraper (used inside) and a thin putty knife to work the seal from the outside.
2) Treated the boat wood where the leak was with Smith's Clear Penetrating Epoxy (still waiting to see the results).

New Update:
1) Have had the portlight home for about 4 weeks, cleaned it and go as much of the previous adhesive/sealant off of it (not sure what was used, but likely 4200 or life caulk-like substance)
2) Resealed the portlight in the frame -- wanted to use DowCorning 795 but seemed to have trouble getting it ordered (two orders were "returned" due to damaged package, so maybe that was a sign) .. so I used LifeSeal ... masked off the area and pushed the sealant in pretty well, only made a minor mess, nothing on the window or frame.
3) Leak checked the seal ... no drips after 24 hours so I think the frame-to-window seal is OK
4) Still ordered Capt Tolly's Crack Cure to make sure ... looking for MJS experience with it.





It looks pretty good and didn't leak when filled with water for 24 hours ... does anyone know of a better "leak test" I can do?





Near-Future:
1) I have my West to repair the minor laminate damage resulting from the leak (maybe next weekend)
2) Apply Capt Tolly's to the outside seal area/parameter to be sure
3) Reinstall the portlight with Like Caulk ...

Then some inside painting ... the wood veneer was already pained white so it will be an easy last step ... more to come...

2nd port removal status

Hi Eric,

Finally got back to Discovery this weekend. Set Son and Nephew to work sanding ( used 80 grit paper, DEWALT 2.4-Amp Orbital Sander - Model #: D26441K, and vacuum).

I had planned on "fixing the heavily damaged mahogany around the ports but the temperature was upper 30's and the instructions called for between 50° and 70°F.

Change of plans and started removing 3rd port. Again 3M 4200 embedded. 3 hours, a putty knife and box opener I had it half cut out.

New plan: next weekend I will finish removing 3rd port and fix the damaged mahogany with Git Rot around all 3.
Time permitting, I will disassemble and reassemble the last port.
Then I will use Capt. Tulley's to ensure the glass is well sealed.

In two weeks time, all three will be back in place and the 4th will wait till sailing season is over.

I continue to forget to take pictures but yours look the same.. Thanks

MJS

Some more progress..

The portlight is sealed (2 rounds of Capt Tolly's ... not sure it did anything) and injected West today to rebond the wood together. I cut two blocks to compress the area after application.



Applied West with a brush and using a syringe to get behind the laminate ... I was surprised how quickly the West set ... only 15-20 min and it was partially solid (60 deg ambient today, I didn't check the west charts but it might be nominal). This is the epoxied and blocked final configuration. Used a thick plastic yard bag as a release layer (I hope it releases):



... I was also surprised how "hot" the West got ... a little sconcerned when it melted through my red solo cup:

ERic,
Those interior aluminum frames are for appearance. The portlight assembly is held in place by liberal amounts of sealant. The flange of the exterior fame means the portlight cannot be stove in from the outside. There are no interior forces pushing out.
No need to screw down the interior frames too tight, it will only distort the aluminum and ruin them.

Mixing cups for West System

Always try to use non waxed, plain paper cups when mixing epoxy. Reaction is exothermic. The more epoxy left in the cup as it cures the more heat it will give off. The warmer the temperature of the epoxy the faster it will "kick off".

"stirring the pot"

Afrakes said:

Always try to use non waxed, plain paper cups when mixing epoxy. Reaction is exothermic. The more epoxy left in the cup as it cures the more heat it will give off. The warmer the temperature of the epoxy the faster it will "kick off".

Click to expand...

I clean up and save a variety of plastic cups -- yogurt, cottage cheese, and butter....
for future epoxy projects.
For a smaller "one stroke pump" or two pump batch, most any will do, but if the temp is above 55 or 60, I use a wider-base vessel just to spread out the epoxy and avoid too much heat build up. When in doubt, use a wider-bottom vessel to keep the depth very shallow and prevent heat buildup.

When stirring, be thorough, but not obsessive, and when stirring in thickening agents, get your mix to the work site quickly once mixed. You have a lot more time with epoxy than you would with poly, but the initial 20 minutes goes by fast if you stop paying attention.
:nerd:

I have been using the calibrated dispensers that go right on the can, with West system epoxy products for two decades.

Loren

I use red cups for varnish or paint or even diesel.

But anything with acetone or xylene eats them, so a test if in doubt is in order. I have returned to find a puddle where the red cup was.

I like them for West system, when small batches are the norm and toss-away is convenient.

But CPES--Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealant, which I happen to be using today--is different. VEry nasty, respirator recommended. No foam brushes.

No red cups for that. Margarine tubs or plastic buckets OK, or metal. "Do not use paper containers, cardboard paint buckets, polystyrene (foam) containers or any disposable drink containers."