Ericson 30+ 1983 - Discovery - Port leaks, Bottom Paint

M

mjsouleman

Sustaining Member
Moderator
I have read many threads about leaking ports but thought I would add a specific thread about the 1983 30+ ports because the port frames are different.

When I purchased Discovery she was leaking in the usual locations with the usual results. To the right of the navigation table on the starboard side was always wet after a rain storm.

Previous fix:
In Discovery's case the previous owner used silicone to reseat the frames in the port openings.
Silicone was also applied to the glass and rubber seals.

Current status:
In removing the ports, I tried to do as little damage to the mahogany veneer as possible. Damage was inevitable due to the volume of silicone used to fill in and around the port to fill the gaps. Tools to remove port: ice pick, screw driver and wood wedges. Time to carefully remove port: 30 minutes

With the port removed, the silicone needed to be removed from the aluminum frame. Tools to remove port: ice pick, screw driver and metal brushes. Time to remove silicone from aluminum frame: 30 minutes

The port frame is held in place by 4 screws. After removing screws, a few minutes of twisting and pulling the frame caused the rubber gasket to pull free in one corner where it can be ripped out.

With the gasket removed, the remaining silicone was cleaned from the glass (tempered safety glass DOT 56 AS2-M.13 ANSI Z 87 1 1975) with a razor blade and acetone.

New Gasket;
I followed the advise from one of several threads and purchased a Catalina reseal kit.
url: http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=1055&ParentCat=376
[h=1]Aluminum Window Reseal Kit C-25, C-27
Part #: E9020
Price: $98.49

Resealing Glass
I am currently waiting to receive the reseal kit.
I will continue this thread shortly.

Mark


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M

mjsouleman

Sustaining Member
Moderator
Reply

I am attempting to be as detailed as possible in an effort to provide clear and concise information.
 
M

mjsouleman

Sustaining Member
Moderator
2nd Port Removal

2nd port removal:

This port presented a new challenge. It was sealed with 3M 4200 sealant.
After removing the frame screws, discovered the insider frame was sealed to the mahogany veneer and the seating frame.
Inserting the tip of the screwdriver between the veneer and the frame I was able to remove the inside frame.
Unfortunately the sealant was bonded to the veneer which caused more damage.

My first attempt to remove the sealant was with a serrated knife.
Result: Removed 4 inches of sealant from one corner of the frame.
Time: 90 minutes

Resolution: Google search "How to remove 3M 4200 sealant"
Results:
Option 1: A little heat from a commercial type heat gun. You just need to get*the 4200,5200 or 101*a*little warm.
Then use the plastic scraper on the gel coat with out fear of screwin it up.


Option 2: Denatured Alcohol will work and will not affect any gelcoat or paint.


Option 3: West Marine Anti-Bond

Option 4: Remove 3M 5200 and 3M 4200 with a rag and acetone


Option 5: Motsenbockers Lift Off" and can be purchased at Home Depot in their paint section.

Use a razor blade to get the 3m 4200 sealant rather thin and then glob on the Motsenbockers Lift Off
Then wash area with a dawn and "warm" water clean soft rag.
After that use a 50/50 mix of distilled white vinegar and distilled water in a spray bottle to finish cleaning the area


Option 6: A new product called Un-Hesive (http://www.un-hesive.com/).
Un-Hesive™ is a patented product specifically designed for the removal of cured polyurethane
adhesive residue from the use of sealants such as 3M 5200 Marine Adhesive Sealant™ and Sikaflex™.
8oz w/trigger - $19.95
Gallon - $80.00


Summary:
1st approach: Wet cloth rag with acetone and place over outer frame. The hope is that the acetone will seep into the space between the gel coat and frame enough to
wedge a plastic scraper between the two.

Pro: I have acetone in the house

2nd approach: spend $20 for a try at the Un-Hesive














 
Christian Williams

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
My experience in this is limited to just a few boats over the years, but I came to believe in physical means--putty knives, chisels, prying, patience, and so on.

If the teak veneer gets messed up, well, that can be repaired in various ways. Or, if you're a heretic like me, that area of teak can be prepped and painted.

I tried Lift Off on the white sealant bonding my main hatch frame to the boat, when I reversed it. Also everything else I could think of. None of it had any effect at all.
I pried with knives, wedges, screwdrivers and so on, and it took a while but caused no damage.

Sometimes a hammer....
 
M

Mort Fligelman

Member III
DeBond

Mark:

Do a Google search om DeBond......It has a wealth of information along with a video....

I used it, and while it was not as easy and simple as the video showed, it did work.

My problem on my 35-3 was that the four cutouts for the fixed ports were all to large.....with two of us maneuvering frames in every possible way there was always at least a 3/16" gap 4 to 5 inches long......

The factory filled all that space with 5200, and the PO just kept adding to it. There was many large tubes worth of 5200 in there.

I had aluminum frames made by a friend with an EDM Machine used as spacers.....got longer screws and put it all together with butyl tape purchased from the local RV dealer.....

So far three years and no leaks..... the DeBond did not even mess us the interior varnish that badley and clearing that up was a cinch.....

I am quite happy with the results of the DeBond, and the butyl tape.

To Quote Loren....."this is worth exactly what you are paying for it"

Good Luck
 
Christian Williams

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I ordered the Debond. If it works on 5200, as advertised, the world has a new sun every morning.

But if it dissolves my hammer, I'll be glum.
 
M

mjsouleman

Sustaining Member
Moderator
Response to Christian

Christian,
Please let us know your experience with Debond. That will be a nice addition to this link.

I will be using acetone and will respond as to it's effectiveness in a few days.
Why acetone? Because it is in the house and my budget is limited.


BTW: if you see posts by csoule, that is my son and 1/2 owner of discovery.

Mark
 
M

mjsouleman

Sustaining Member
Moderator
Reply from 3M Marine division - this is interesting

From: marine@mmm.com (marine@mmm.com)


Mark,


Thank you for contacting 3M Marine Trades.


3M(TM) 4200 Marine Sealant can be removed by either piano wire, mechanical knife or sanding it off.


We do not have a product to apply that will dissolve it.


Sincerely


Clauzel G.
U.S. Business Services Operations
3M Marine
www.mmm.com/marine
1-877-366-2746
.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This document is intended to provide basic information for use in evaluating 3M product(s). The statements, technical information, and recommendations contained in this document are general or summary in nature, and believed to be current at the time the document was created. 3M, however,
does not represent that this information will be maintained as current or updated, and this information should be used accordingly. This document is not intended to replace the user ’s careful evaluation of the 3M product(s) for its particular use and intended application.
WITH RESPECT TO THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS DOCUMENT, 3M MAKES NO WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ANY IMPLIED WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR OF NON-INFRINGEMENT OF A THIRD PARTY’S INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS. 3M shall not be liable for any loss or damages, whether direct, indirect, special, incidental, or consequential (including, but not limited to, loss of profits, revenue, business, opportunity, or goodwill) resulting from or in any way related to the information contained in this document.


- If there is a need to reply to this response, please leave the subject line intact to assure correct routing. -


|-----------Original Message Follows------------|



Subject = Other


Message = Question: What is the best approach to remove 3M 4200 Sealant?


Background: Previous owner of sailboat sealed ports with 3M 4200 sealant. I want to remove 3M 4200 sealant.






I had to copy the complete message or no one would believe me... Now that is worth a laugh!

Mark
 
M

mjsouleman

Sustaining Member
Moderator
Fire?

I do not think I will use fire around 33 year old mahogany veneer or 33 year old fiberglass.
 
M

Mort Fligelman

Member III
Interior Wood

Mark: If the wood is in really bad shape......follow Christian......Sand it, fill it, paint it.....

There is a thread out there showing what Tim Reiley did with veneer.....more effort than I would put in on boats of our vintage......

My .02 worth.

Good luck
 
B

bolbmw

Member III
Mine is painted, I'll probably re-do it and use hatteras white as well next time around (PO didn't do a good prep job.) I think it brightens up the cabin.
 
M

mjsouleman

Sustaining Member
Moderator
veneer - Replace or not?

Mort,

Thank you for the advice. As a novice, my first impression is to return Discovery to her original beauty. However, I need practical advice from experienced Ericson owners like your self to save me from myself.

Thank you for the advice. I will post final decision and work as it comes.

Mark
 
M

mjsouleman

Sustaining Member
Moderator
2nd port removal status

Status report

This report describes the removal of the 2nd port which was sealed with 3M 4200.

Removal was executed by slicing layer after layer of 3M 4200 with a leatherman multi-tool, serrated knife followed by multiple applications of acetone and the use of wooden wedges to pry the outer frame from the port.

Damage was done to the mahogany veneer with knife slips cut deep and 3M 4200 sloop pulled veneer strips off.

Time: 4.5 hours

The next report will describe
  1. Removing excess 3M 4200 from the 2nd frame
  2. Description of the Catalina Reseal kit
  3. dis-assembly of the ports
  4. re-assembly of the ports

Suggestion:
When a port is leaking,
  1. Remove the frame from the cut put
  2. Remove safety glass from the frame
  3. Purchase correct size Catalina port sealant kit
  4. Install the Catalina port gasket (Catalina sealant kit)
  5. Install safety glass in the frame
  6. Re-seal frame in port cut out with butyl tape

Veneer replacement:
  • Pending Ericson suggestions
 
Loren Beach

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Fixed Port Observations

Admittedly, this is kind of a "plan D" suggestion, but with care it is possible to replace the large fixed ports with external lenses - Lexan (or Acrylic).
This eliminates some major sources of leakage, too.

This was not standard on your model, but was on all the Olson's. I have seen it done expertly on an E-27, and that boat is in the splash screen rotation for this site.
I do have to say that the Ericson standard aluminum-framed ports look just a bit more "yachty", whatever that means, but I also like the look of ours.
BTW, the picture shows ours Lexan lenses about 18 years after I last replaced them, and the UV hazing is getting bad. They still buff out clear, but are really about due for replacement... then we can go another 20 years. :)

No matter what you do, some new veneer or other new covering finish will probably be needed inside.

Regards,

Loren
 

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