Please help me

[TwistedLogic]

Sleather asked about the mahogany rudder being liftable.
It is a traditional pintle and gudgeon setup, and can be easily slid onto the gudgeons on the boat by one person, but it is not adjustable to make it shoal draft like the sliding fiberglass rudder. I would advise lifting it off after each sail to protect the wood and varnish. I will get some photos of it as soon as I get it out of the cabin. Any advise on a fair price would be helpful. I've never sold a 30 year old original varnished mahogany rudder and tiller before
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[sleather]

Rudder

TL, STEVE here. Both of the "links" above are asking $250obo(seems resonable, and subject to negotiation Do post some picks and while your at it get a "weight" if you can(bathroom scale?) There are a few ways to "fix" a fixed rudder!

 

[TwistedLogic]

I pulled the rudder and tiller out of the cabin today at lunch. They weigh 16lbs total. There will be packaging weight added of course. $200 + shipping sounds fair to me. Let me know what you think.

 

[sleather]

Story time......

Hmmmm...............Might be worth that for an "E23 original" wall-hanging!
Did it really come w/ the boat? Seems odd that a C/B would have a fixed rudder.
Story time.............
Thanks for posting the picks!

 

[TwistedLogic]

When I got the boat in 2002, it was in the starboard cockpit locker beside the battery box, and remained there until today. I have always used the fiberglass shoal draft liftable rudder. The manual shows the clip on (fixed) version. I Thought it was a good spare until I removed the fiberglass rudder for painting. Didn't like the thought of trying that in open water.

 

[Capt.Rob8129]

Sleather, that's not a bad idea, storing the boat in dry storage at a marina. I might consider that in the future. I was liking the idea of having the boat here at home and using it as a "man cave." I know that it's mighty small in there, but it would work for now.

TL, $200 for a sweet mahogany rudder, sounds like a good deal to me. That rudder looks nice, but I think that it might look a little bit out of place on an E-23. I WILL take you up on that offer when I'm ready for the rudder, so hold on to it for me please. The price on the sails sounds pretty fair too. I'll let you know when I'm ready for them. How do those mast storage supports work? Do they bolt down to the deck???

I've got 1 week left until I go to get my boat, can't wait. My wife is looking forward to the trip too. There's a British Pub at the entrance to the neighborhood where the boat is, the have the best fish and chips that I've ever had, and she wants to go down there just for that. There's a winery in St. Augustine that we are going to go visit for a tasting. One of my coworkers suggested that we do that. I think that we are going to go down there sat. after I get off of work at noon, that way we can change the tires, check the bearings, go out to eat, etc. Then drive home early sunday morning so that we can do some cleaning before it gets dark. It took us 2 1/2 hours to get down there last time, and close to 4 hours to get back...some people just don't know how to drive. I'm anxious to see what kind of gas mileage I'll get in my truck on the interstate; solo and with a trailer. We got 30 mpg's last time with my impala. Ok, I'm rambling again, I need to make my own web page for this boat, that way I can ramble on and on all I want...lol e-grin. Don't worry, if I did that, I would give ya'll the address.

 

[Capt.Rob8129]

e-23

Does anybody have an owners manual for the e-23, or know where I can get one from? How does this boat handle in waves and stuff? Would I be alright to take it out into the ocean if the seas were pretty low? What if I wanted to anchor just off shore overnight? I've looked at charts, and the water stays pretty shallow for maybe 1 1/2 miles off shore. Just wondering.

 

[sleather]

Sea state/state of mind

Robert, I've got the complete owners manual(mentioned before) I hope to be getting a copy to Shaun soon so he can post it up in the Documents section. You'll be able to download it from there. If there's something specific, just ask.
There IS a mast-raising diagram in there already.
BTW did you get my return e-mail?

As far as the boats "abilities", she's capable of handling more than you're willing to experience @ this time.
Provided...........
-The rigging is inspected and or replaced(mine is "new" and upgraded in '94)
-You have adequate sails. Reef points in the main and 2 or 3 different size jibs.
-You've determined that the chainplates and bulkheads below are sound.
-The boat's set-up right.

I've had mine out in 50+mph winds(here on the lake) and 30+ w/ 8' seas @ 12sec. on the Great Lakes. No problem!

What's shallow? High winds and shallow water make for some nasty waves(short & steep). When you get around to launching access some weather websites(there's a ton) for wind velocities and sea state(size & timing of waves).

Where abouts would these adventures be taking place? I love "google maps".
After a "short-peek", you've got some "amazing" opportunities available.

Did you check out those other rudder "links" from post #8?
I think she needs the one that belongs on the boat(the woody is a "pretty" home-built back-up unit)

 

[Capt.Rob8129]

e-23

Steve,

It sounds like you've had your boat out in some pretty nasty weather. I don't really think that I want to try that right now. I figure that I'll be doing most of my sailing in the intracoastal waterways around Tybee Island, GA. I've always wanted to be the guy on the sailboat that's sailing across the horizon that the people on the beach see. If not around Tybee, then I'll be around St. Catherines sound near Richmondhill, GA. These are the places where we went boating while I was a kid, so I'm vaguely familiar with them. I live in Rincon, GA which is a suburb of Savannah, GA. There's lot's of water around here, we actually had the Olympic yachting events held here in Savannah in '96.

I did receive your reply e-mail, I've just been so busy during the week. I work 60 hour weeks, then when I get home I've got to spend time with my family, so spare time is a luxury during the work week.

I looked at the links, and even wrote an e-mail to the seller. He has sold them. I found another E-23 for sail on the internet, and it has the same mahogany rudder that TL has. That rudder just looks too pretty to use, especially in salt water.

How shallow is shallow??? It's been a few years since I've looked at the charts for the coast. I want to say that maybe 1/4 to 1/2 mile out, it's 10-15 feet in some parts. I'll have to dig out my charts to see for sure, so don't quote me on that. I know that at around 150yards out on low tide, I can wade out and still have my head above water, but I'm 6'4" tall too.

That owners manual....I'm knowledge hungry. I can't wait to get my hands on it so that I can read all about it. I'm the type of person who reads the whole owners manual to a new car in one night.

What if I just get a 150% genoa and put it on a roller furling? Do you think that would handle most of the conditions that I would encounter?

 

[sleather]

Stuff

Robert, My take on "roller-furling" is that it "may" be a good solution for you(in the beginning) as it allows infinite adjustment w/o leaving the cockpit. That's a BIG safety factor!
I prefer regular "hank-on" jibs because as the going gets tuff(and it will) a rolled-up headsail becomes very inefficient. You could always "change-back" later as you don't have an inventory now anyway! Good Thinking!

There's really not "much" in the manual(compared to my Grand Cherokee, which came w/ a video:eek: ). Boat manuals don't cover all the boat systems as many are dealer or owner installed. In fact the manual shows "out-dated" gate valves for the thru-hull. The "mast-raising" and specs are already in the Document section. I like having one just for the halibut. Pick up some good books!

Rob H can fill you in on shallow water sailing. Lake Winnebago(were he sails) is big but shallow ~20' and has a reputation for nasty waves.
Lake Erie is EVIL, at about ~30' there aren't the usual swells, just big/short waves. Last week? they had 22'ers.

Get'r home, take a bunch of picks and we'll get you "out-there" That first "Horizon" trip will be an adventure!
BTW love the "man-cave" thing!

 

[NateHanson]

Rob, in addition to learning about your new boat (good find, especially with the trailer and all ), you'll probably find it useful to do some reading on sailing and seamanship. That will answer all your questions about anchoring, handing waves, overnighting, and much more stuff you don't even know to wonder about yet.

I'd recommend John Rousmaniere's "Annapolis Book of Seamanship". It's a good general reference, and covers the basics.

Have fun! I'm jealous of your climate this time of year.

 

[Rocinante33]

Robert,

A roller furling unit is probably pretty expensive (unless the boat already has it) & you said you are on a tight budget. If you sail with a hanked on foresail, try a downhaul. By that I mean a line attached to the head of the sail or at the topmost hank. Lead the line down through the mouth of each lower hank. At the deck level, near the forestay, find a place to attach a small block. Turn the downhaul through that block and bring it back along the deck to the cockpit. Then, if the wind pipes up, you can release your halyard and pull the headsail down to the deck with the downhaul without having to go foreward.

 

[Capt.Rob8129]

E-23 hull speed

Does anybody know what the hull speed is on the centerboard E-23???

I was thinking that I could get a good used roller furling unit for pretty cheap compared to a brand new one. The boats that I've sailed on before all had a roller furling unit on them, so I'm not really familiar with a "hank on" head sail. I'm just worried about how the roller furling unit will affect the stepping and unstepping of the mast.

 

[sleather]

Reading

Richard, I went and yanked this out of an old post to add to your reading list(better than any manual) Books are the best boating investment you can make. <HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->

In addition to "SFD"(Sailing for Dummies) might I recommend, Fundamentals of SAILING, CUISING, & RACING (Stephen Colgate), old book, but then again we have "old" boats. Sea Sense (Richard Henderson) it's very "offshore" but it's good reading and GOOD advice for the inevitable "bad" day.

Keith, The downhaul's a good idea and I use one often for solo sailing but, the E23(having a mast-head rig) does not sail well on the main alone(150 jib "alone" is great, my "lazy" sail).
Headsail changes are just a fact-of-life if you want to maintain the best-possible boat handling characteristics in changing conditions. I change mine solo often and it's fairly easy provided your careful.

Richard you may want to post a request in the For Sale & Wanted section for an "E23 roller furling system" if that's the direction you want to go(might pay-off).

Your going to have to realize that although you got one of the BEST deals out there(w/o a doubt) bringing'er back to GOOD condition is going to take a "small" investment.

 

[sleather]

Does anybody know what the hull speed is on the centerboard E-23???

I was thinking that I could get a good used roller furling unit for pretty cheap compared to a brand new one. The boats that I've sailed on before all had a roller furling unit on them, so I'm not really familiar with a "hank on" head sail. I'm just worried about how the roller furling unit will affect the stepping and unstepping of the mast.

It's Sunday morning "can't keep-up w/ the posts time".
Hull speed is "me thinks" [sq. rt. of the waterline length(19'-6)x 1.34= 5.9K= 6.8mph] I've got a "speedo" on mine and routinely see 7.0 when I'm "drivin-hard". Why?

Many folks here have "roller furling" and trailer and or drop their masts for bridges and such. It adds to the excitment, but can be done! New post?

 

[Loren Beach]

Does anybody know what the hull speed is on the centerboard E-23???

Only the waterline length of your hull is needed to compute the theoretical point at which it takes a disproportionate amount of propulsion power (wind or motor...) to keep increasing the forward speed.
The keel configuration would factor in, as would the displacement (how much "stuff" you carry around) when getting near the max. That's where increments of wetted surface area and weight make a difference.

Guesstimate: You should be able to maintain about 5.5 kts under motor, IMO. Under sail, subject to the material limits of rigging and sails, and crew common sense, you can likely hit 7-ish on a reach. Bursts of surfing might bring more...

Just my .01 worth,
Loren

 

[Seth]

Hull Speed

Most sail boats can and do exceed the hull speed when sailed to potential. The term is defined as "theoretical", and as such is not really a limiting factor.

Boiled down, this value is the speed through the water at which the bow wave forms a "wall" of sorts, over which an exponential amount of power is required to pass (for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction).

In power boats, this speed can be overcome if there is enough extra power to push the boat up and over the bow wave, at which point the boat begins to plane. Ski boats and power boats designed for very high speeds have hull shapes which are quite flat and will get up on a plane very quickly-without needing so much extra power (they produce small bow waves). For this type of boat, the theoretical hull speed is irrelevant.

Sailboats routinely pass hull speed when surfing in waves, but many of them have enough sail area (power)to surpass this speed-even in flat water. Add a few following seas, and you will do it with ease. High performance planing designs, like the Melges 24, Open 60, VOR 70's, etc., combine high power and a planing hull shape so that they also are able to plane and sail right over the relatively small bow wave. The heavier and deeper the hull shape, the more water is displaced by the hull moving through the water, and the higher bow wave-and thus exponentially more power is needed to surpass it.

Where you can easily see this in action on the typical Ericson is when powering. With the engine at normal cruise settings in flat water (assuming the prop pitch and dia. are correct), the boat will make or come very close to this point. You will have noticed that small power additions yield noticeable increases in speed. As you approach this value, the bow wave will get bigger and bigger. As you arrive somewhere close to "hull speed", you will find that the same incremental power increase does little or nothing, and you must add a LOT more power to go any faster..

So, my point is not to get to wrapped up in the importance/issue of hull speed-it is just math, and represents a calculated point past which a lot more power is needed to exceed. BTW-you have it right: 1.34 X Sq.rt. of LWL, but it isn't really a limit at all (and is a "theoretical" number anyway), so is not worth being concerned with.

More wind, some waves and sail area will usually get most boats past, and depending on the boat, a lot faster.

Enjoy!
S

 

[sleather]

Kick'n Butt

Where you can easily see this in action on the typical Ericson is when powering. With the engine at normal cruise settings in flat water (assuming the prop pitch and dia. are correct), the boat will make or come very close to this point. You will have noticed that small power additions yield noticeable increases in speed. As you approach this value, the bow wave will get bigger and bigger. As you arrive somewhere close to "hull speed", you will find that the same incremental power increase does little or nothing, and you must add a LOT more power to go any faster.....

FWIW, I've got a Honda 8 kicker on my E23 and it runs about 5.5-6mph @ 3/4 throttle. Any additional throttle is "worth little" additional speed. You can feel the boat "settle" into the trough and it pushes a bigger bow wave! The extra power "does" come in handy in adverse conditions when punching into a head-wind. After motoring for awhile it's pretty evident where the "sweet-spot" is.

 

[Capt.Rob8129]

still my E-23???

Excuse me while I do some ranting and raving in the process of asking for some advice. The asshole guy that I'm getting the boat from supposedly received some citation for having the boat and 3 different vehicles in his yard, so he sold all of them to the junk yard. I have a written contract with his signature saying that he received x amount of money as a retainer on the boat for it to be held for me with the remainder to be payed and the boat picked up by Jan 31 at the latest. I called him tonight to confirm me coming to get the boat next weekend and this is what he told me. He says that he is going to send me the deposit back. What can I do? Just to save alot of legal hassle, I think that I'm going to ask the salvage yard how much they want for it and hassle my way down to what I was going to pay for the boat originally. This really pisses me off. I can't begin to explain how pissed and upset I am. Any advice on what to do about all of this?

 

[sleather]

Rough Seas

Wholly Crap!:eek: First of all "STAY CALM" good thing it's Sunday! The fact that you have a signed contract is a HUGE advantage not that it's bullet-proof.

I'd definitely contact the "salvage outfit" and explain the situation in a calm, detached manner(they probably don't have a clue). They would love to turn it around in-a-heartbeat! The problemo is that they have incurred transportation costs and will expect some profit for their time. Any idea what THEY paid for it? Ask them about the wheel-bearings.

I think the "temporary owner" should/could be held accountable for the increased cost to you(because of the contract). Going "legal" for such a small amount would be the last resort!

Why couldn't he have called you first?

Good Luck and "stay calm", gettin' PO'd will just dig a deeper hole!