E-38 Major Leak!

[Shaggy]

Well, I hate to make this post....

Let me also caveat by saying this sad story was relayed to me secondhand, but I did meet the folks and boat involved prior to the event.

One of our fellow Vikes from the Bay area recently purchased a gorgeous E-38-200 in Long Beach. The boat was circa 1989 or 90 and barely used. I got a good look at it since it was in our marina during the prep for the fateful northbound trip. The new owner and crew were very nice, stopped by to check out my older E-38, had a couple of beers, etc.

After a couple of days being delayed by fuel filter problems, they departed north, with plans to stop at Marina del Ray, Santa Barbara, etc, and basically hop their way up the coast, trying to motor during the early hours as much as possible.

Well, I just heard on their third day, 5 hours north of Santa Barbara, the boat began rapidly taking on water. Wind and sea conditions were evidently a bit gnarly, shall we say, and they had experienced a rough morning up to this point. I believe they were motorsailing, but again, this is secondhand.

When the water began ingressing, they checked and shut the thru-hulls, and turned back for Santa Barbara. After a 5-hour return trip (that must've been fun) through the rough conditions, pumping like crazy, they made it back into port and got the boat pulled out of the water.

Scary to say, there was apparently a crack in the hull near the hull/keel stub!! I'm not sure of the exact location or dimensions, but it was big enough to let water in at an alarming rate.

I can't really speculate on the exact conditions, how hard they were pushing the boat, etc, since I wasn't there, but as a fellow E-38 owner, this certainly got my attention!

Thankfully the crew made it back safe and sound.

I know these boats are tough, but are there any other similar tales of woe out there? I like to push my boat within reason, but holy smokes, this is a scary story!!! :eek:

Is there something I should know about my E38 I've known and loved for the past 6 months?

P.S. If anyone directly involved is here, please jump in and correct any facts I may have gotten wrong. So sorry for this mishap!!

 

[treilley]

Sounds like evidence of a previous hard grounding.

 

[Emerald]

The only thing I've heard similar to this was about an E39 named Maverick that did a circumnavigation. Here's a link to her logs where they start talking about it:

http://www.ussmaverick.net/reports/20-Dec-2002-10-00.html

 

[Mike.Gritten]

I agree that this may be evidence of a grounding. In a hard grounding on boats like Catalinas and Beneteaus at least, where the keel is bolted on to a stub on the bottom of the hull, you get the "smile" at the forward end of the keel and compression damage to the hull at the aft end of the keel. I believe that the E38 hull is designed in a similar manner to these boats.
I thought that the E39's were like my boat, moulded in two mirror-image halves, and then bonded together to form the hull. IIRC Maverick suffered a failure of this joint near the bow - scary and strange, but an isolated case on a boat that was close to completing a circumnavigation.

 

[FullTilt E28]

Very Scary

The only boats I've seen with pretty severe hull damage around the keel area have all been traced back to a pretty large grounding at one point.

I hope they had a good Survey done by a reputable Surveyor. If this wasn't caught in the Survey chances are the report can be used to have their insurance cover repair costs or possibly get involved to handle any fallout with the seller.

Though generally a hard grounding even if repaired a good surveyor can identify signs of this which leads to more questions for the owner and a more detailed inspection. I seriously doubt it was just a hull failure.

Checking to make sure the keel isn't a modified version would be a good idea also. Very rare chance of this but people do weird things to boats if an owner had a heavier keel added this could change the stress the hull was originally built to handle.

 

[Shaggy]

I'm pretty sure the boat did not have any modifications done to the keel, nor was there any damage noted during the survey. (I know the broker and he is a straight up guy). But then again, who knows...?

Theoretically speaking, if one just plain pushed a boat like this too hard, motorsailing through nasty winds and seas, do you think an E38 would crack its hull?

Crazy stuff...and it just happened last week.

 

[Loren Beach]

Much Needed: photos and a look at the damage survey. All is conjecture at this point.
Loren

 

[wurzner]

A friend up here in Seattle just took delivery of a PSC era 38-200 and had to have his keel rebedded to the tune of about 7 k. Looks like they did not remove the mold release and it never seated properly. He too took on a fair amount of water so maybe that is the issue. Are you sure it is a hull crack or is it more a hull/keel separation?

 

[FullTilt E28]

I'm pretty sure the boat did not have any modifications done to the keel, nor was there any damage noted during the survey. (I know the broker and he is a straight up guy). But then again, who knows...?

Theoretically speaking, if one just plain pushed a boat like this too hard, motorsailing through nasty winds and seas, do you think an E38 would crack its hull?

Crazy stuff...and it just happened last week.

Pretty rare thing especially for the over built 70's 80's fiberglass sailboats. The keel to stub joint comment and a broken seal sounds like a more likely possibility. Given the large number of boats Ericson built I seriously doubt the chances of the hull not being laid up correctly resulting in a hull failure.

 

[u079721]

I too think it is just more likely a separation of the hull-keel joint to the point where the rate of water intrusion was finally a problem. On my 1989 E38 they forgot to remove the mold release, and after the aft edge of the keep separated from the hull there was a constant low flow of water in the bilge, which the PO thought was normal (!). It is easy to imagine that some heavy and hard sailing would open up the hull-keel joint all around, which along with poor bedding, could give quite a leak.

Mr. King himself once told me that the E38 was so strong that you could sail it full speed agound, and not hurt it. Not sure I completely believe that (I sure would not want to test it), but they were (are) pretty sturdy.

 

[Chris Miller]

I'd believe separation between keel/hull... I think most of us have had some issue with that at one time or another.

AFA the rest of it goes... Like they say on Sailing Anarchy-- Pics- or it didn't happen.

 

[noproblemo2]

This wasn't perhaps Jay was it, he was next to us at our haul out last month for a survey?

 

[CaptnNero]

Egregious

Web Chiles' E-37 "Egregious" http://www.solocircumnavigation.com/SoloSailingCircumnavigation/SoloCircumnavigators/WebbChiles/WebbChilesEgregious.htm suffered from the hull halves splitting behind the keel throughout his entire solo circumnavigation. He ordered Egregious from Ericson without an engine and the crack appeared directly beneath where the engine would have been. This was documented in a book he published from log excerpts.

Near the end of the voyage he was spending several hours a day bailing despite having done numerous calm water patches with underwater epoxy.

 

[vbenn]

E38 cracked hull

I have an E380, 1997 model. PO sailed it for 3 seasons in Maine where there is a rock with a large headache, judging by the gouge in the forward edge of my keel. Thanks for the heads up - - I'll do a thorough check this winter when the boat is on the hard.

I once saw a boat dropped 8 feet onto the marina tarmac by a new crane operator. Since my boat was in the same marina and was scheduled for a haul out the following week, I canceled and went to another marina.

Vince Benn
Wild Blue

 

[Guy Stevens]

There is more to that story than Web knew

Web Chiles' E-37 "Egregious" http://www.solocircumnavigation.com/SoloSailingCircumnavigation/SoloCircumnavigators/WebbChiles/WebbChilesEgregious.htm suffered from the hull halves splitting behind the keel throughout his entire solo circumnavigation. He ordered Egregious from Ericson without an engine and the crack appeared directly beneath where the engine would have been. This was documented in a book he published from log excerpts.

Near the end of the voyage he was spending several hours a day bailing despite having done numerous calm water patches with underwater epoxy.

I have been on the boat, and have seen the photos from the final repair done by the owner at that time. It was so simple and such not a real issue, there was a hole in the boat, nothing more complex than that. Took the owner something less than an hour to actually fix it completely. When I met, and sailed on the boat it had been sailing with the fix for over 5 years, and was as dry as they get. The boat was not cracking in half.

Guy

 

[Emerald]

Hi Guy,

really nice to hear more info on Egregious. As I look at this thread, it strikes me it's really easy to start jumping to conclusions on boats splitting, when this is really not an issue. I gave a quick look at the text on Egregious (http://www.solocircumnavigation.com...SoloCircumnavigators/WebbChiles/WebChiles.htm), and when reading about her being rolled in the Tasman sea, amongst other severe weather, I could not help but think there had to be more to this, as I didn't think a boat splitting in half from hull separation could have survived the roll and other severe conditions she experienced. So, once again, thanks for the insight.

 

[CaptnNero]

Not such a real issue ?

I have been on the boat, and have seen the photos from the final repair done by the owner at that time. It was so simple and such not a real issue, there was a hole in the boat, nothing more complex than that. Took the owner something less than an hour to actually fix it completely. When I met, and sailed on the boat it had been sailing with the fix for over 5 years, and was as dry as they get. The boat was not cracking in half.

Guy

Ok, Guy, can you elaborate on this hole ? How do you get a hole under the boat like that ?

 

[noproblemo2]

Update

Just an update as I heard from the owner of said boat. "Yup, it was me, the boat is now in Santa Barbara. She has a 1 1/2" x 3/8" hole in the forward portion of the hull at the keel. Will write more later. Main thing is we are OK, will know more after the insurance survey how ominous it was." So lets all keep him in our Ericson thoughts...

 

[Shaggy]

ZOIKES!!

Glad they made it to a safe harbor.

 

[rbonilla]

when i worked @ the ericson factory (accounting dept) i can remember ericsons falling off trailers (being delivered) a few times..going around freeway cloverleafs too fast...anyway..falling off the trailers onto concret and being only cosmetically dinged up..the factory was able to inspect, repair and patch em up...

I have an E380, 1997 model. PO sailed it for 3 seasons in Maine where there is a rock with a large headache, judging by the gouge in the forward edge of my keel. Thanks for the heads up - - I'll do a thorough check this winter when the boat is on the hard.

I once saw a boat dropped 8 feet onto the marina tarmac by a new crane operator. Since my boat was in the same marina and was scheduled for a haul out the following week, I canceled and went to another marina.

Vince Benn
Wild Blue