Gybing Techniques / Associated Boom Gear

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Thread now gybed over...

I tried to pick out the relevant "gybing" posts from the Thread Splitting function that is open to Moderators. I hope this has not misplaced any relevant material from either train of thought.
:rolleyes:
Ted is right about the need for a separate thread, and I have been contemplating this move for several days. This is a first attempt, on my part.
If you all spot some portion of your essay that now is misplaced... please recreate it in the proper thread.

[ I now have a better understanding of the problem that Apprentice Mickey had in the old movie annimation "Fantasia". Remember those brooms and the water?]
:)

Loren
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
I was reading the article on Sailnet that is referenced above. Boom brake sounds like something I could use for single handed gybes in heavy air? I haven' t read up on it entirely but it sounds like it will allow the boom to cross slowly thereby eliminating the "crash gybe". I have never used preventers in heavy air for the reasons mentioned above, but perhaps if they were rigged differently I might consider it. My whole focus here is beng able to handle the boat comfortably DDW in 20kts or more with a good sea running. On another topic, without using the engine I am not sure how the folks on that swan mentioned above would have tacked the boat in force 10 with those kind of seas. Shame the boom broke though.
 

Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
Yes, we broke the boat, but at least no one was hurt. Some of the boats had and rigged storm sails. We didn't have any, so we had no business being 300 miles offshore in November. I'll know better next time. Of course once the storm hit, there wasn't much we could do except hang on and hang on I did. The routine in going on watch was to bash your head into the sides of the boat a few times while struggling into your foul weather gear, barf into the head, and come on deck to be greeted by a firehose. At one point the wind blew the Lifesling overboard and it took two grown men to haul in an empty Lifesling. Anyone clipped to a jackline who went overboard would have drowned for sure so there was no question of leaving the cockpit to tame the boom. Following the storm we discovered that the VHF antenna and anenometer had been swept from the top of the 60 foot mast. We surmised that the mast head (the boat was pretty well laid on its side during the height of the storm and jumping off waves), had an encounter with a very significant wave.
 

NateHanson

Sustaining Member
In extreme conditions?

I would absolutely tack around (chicken gybe) if sailing singlehanded in heavy weather. You need to exercise an extra measure of caution when alone, because you don't want to create a problem you can't solve alone, and you certainly don't want to put yourself at risk of going overboard. So I'd be undercanvassed for starters, douse the spin (if flying one), have the auto steer upwind, and sheet in the main (and jib if set) as the boat gradually comes up to a beat, then tack the boat with the autopilot, and when you're set on the next tack bear off to your desired course.
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
Have you tried to bring a boat around from DDW in force 10 conditons with 30 to 40 foot seas? My guess is it would be pretty hard to get enough headway to make it through irons with waves like that, but maybe not.
 

Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
I think the answer is to have proper sails to begin with, i.e a storm trysail (no boom) and a storm jib.

http://www.sailnet.com/collections/articles/index.cfm?articleid=davisd0019

Or run under bare poles. There is a beautifully written book entitled Saga of Simba (1939), where the little sloop encountered a similar storm in the same part of the Atlantic north of Bermuda, and ran for two days until the storm blew out. Then they had to beat back to Bermuda.

I should add that what really kept our bacon out of the fire was a robust below decks autopilot. It would have too exahausting to to steer more than a few minutes in those conditions and too dangerous to be at the wheel.
 
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NateHanson

Sustaining Member
Is this really a situation you see yourself getting into? Maybe you're just having thought experiment, but personally I don't think of singlehanding in Force 10 conditions with spreader height waves as my idea of fun, so I'd probably avoid the situation. But if I were to find myself in that position, I think the last thing I'd do is leave the helm to gybe the main. I'd probably hang the hell on, and just stay on that tack until things started to calm down a bit.

In my opinion you're in storm survival mode if single-handed in that situation. Conditions that might be a stiff blow for a full crew are much different for a single hander. Your options are severely limited when alone, especially if your boat won't steer itself in those conditions (either by windvane or very capable auto).
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
Yeah I hope to never end up in that situation, but I am certain that ofshore racers encounter it in the southern ocean frequently. How do they gybe in those conditions (single handers that is)? or do they? I am thinking the trysail would be the way to go for sure. How about this dutchman boom brake? Does anyone here have experience with it? Seems like a good idea but I wonder just how wellit works in 20-25kts as a brake? Sounds like you need to set the tension on it to allow the boom to cross, but slowly. How many crash gybes does that take to figure out? Its an interesting looking device that looks liek it should work.
 

Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
You are obviously not going to find those wave conditions in coastal waters, but I have been caught in a squall on Long Island Sound where the winds topped 60 knots, the waves rose to six feet in minutes, the sky turned to night and lightning was striking all around. I don't mind admitting that I was scared. My response when I saw it coming, which proved to be correct, was to head back out to open water, furl all sails, and run before it under power. Of course, that storm lasted only 20 minutes, but some sailors did perish.
 
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NateHanson

Sustaining Member
The southern ocean boats are downwind sleds. They handle extremely differently in these conditions than our boats, and the electric autopilots those racers carry are worlds ahead of those we typically put on our boats.

What I'd worry about with the boom brake in these sorts of conditions is whether the main could be eased out again fast enough. The worst spot to be in, is with that boom sheeted all the way in. If the next wave rolls you before you can let the main all the way out, you'll either gybe back, or broach violently.
 

hodo

Member III
Geoff Johnson said:
You are obviously not going to find those wave conditions in coastal waters, but I have been caught in a squall on Long Island Sound where the winds topped 60 knots, the waves rose to six feet in minutes, the sky turned to night and lightning was striking all around. I don't mind admitting that I was scared. My response when I saw it coming, which proved to be correct, was to head back out to open water, furl all sails, and run before it under power. Of course, that storm lasted only 20 minutes, but some sailors did perish.
Geoff, I think my first response would be to get out my brown pants. Hodo.
 

Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
Wait, there is more. It wasn't my boat and when I asked my friend, the owner, where the life jackets were, he replied "In the attic". I did spend part of the time on my knees, but I prefer to think that it was only to keep the blinding rain out of my eyes. We closed his wife up in the cabin with my wife and I am reliably informed that his wife was screaming "We are going to die" between attempts to raise the CG (which was otherwise occupied).
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Sometimes you feel like a Boom, Sometimes you.....

Three years ago I was crew on a delivery of a Cascade 36 down the coast form Astoria to SF. All but the last day was with a Monitor vane steering. Off northern California we were in a clear-air gale off Cape Mendoceno for 36 hours -- seas breaking in all directions. Fifty miles offshore, we ran with a reefed stays'l only. After running for a prior day with a double-reef, main and boom were then lashed down. I do not believe that we could have safely done a tack in place of a gybe -- seas were routinely running 19 feet.

No damage except that the air paddle was badly fractured and was replaced in SF. The white tumbling wave tops were both beautiful in full sun and under a full moon, and frieghtening, in equal measure. Took some cross seas over the cabin and got pooped once in the wee hours. :eek:

I think that both the force of a gybe could break a gooseneck and also there is the real possibility of a round up-and-down and planting the boom in the water... Yikes!
:(
That particular boat has a hard dodger with a gallows on which to lash down the boom. Darned good thing, too!

Interesting how so many of you have wrung more sea water out of your socks than I have sailed over! :rolleyes:
My little adventure sounds kinda tame compared to some of yours...

Best,
Loren in PDX
Olson 34 Fresh Air
 

boatboy

Inactive Member
Nate,

In actual practice I don't think you'd use the boom brake while gybing on purpose. It's too difficult to sheet in the main if the brake is strongly activated. I think the boom brake is best used to prevent accidental gybes in light air, or prevent damage if accidentally gybing in heavy air.
 

Guy Stevens

Moderator
Moderator
Boom Brakes

The boom brake could be used in an intentional gybe. One end is dead ended to whatever (Hopefully whatever strongly attached to the boat), the other end goes through a block to a wench. You can tighten or loosen the brake depending on what you want it to do. It works like a belaying device in climbing, you can stop with it, or you can slowly repel (abseil to those living upside down :) ).

We had one aboard Pneuma, came with the boat... Having done a lot of sailing without one I thought it was a ridiculous piece of gear..........Until I put some inexperienced crew at the wheel in a gusty day, and watched what happened when they were steering. Inexperienced crew and exhausted crew act a lot the same I noticed.

As for Trysails,,,,, I find that they are only usable on boats that have boom gallows. NO gallows, then what are you going to do with the boom???? It swings around a bunch when not in use let me tell you (Yeah you can tighten up that sheet till you pull the traveler off the deck and it makes no difference! :)) Lash it to the deck? Right, then you have successfully made it at least twice as hard to get to the foredeck to deal with the inspection and any problems that occur up there, and you have reduced your visibility even more. (You can hardly see anyway why make it worse???).

Back to the boom brake... In really bad errr... stuff, they will bring the boom across slowly, (Plenty of time to duck, and slow enough that it won't strike your head only push it out of the way.) What I found cool was the amount of noise that they make while doing this. Kind of a OHSHITGYBE alarm, I can't describe noises on the net, but they do make a good deal of it if they are trimmed correctly and you gybe.

Worst weather we were in was off the coast of New Zealand, somewhere that I would not sail to again no matter what you were paying (Ok maybe, but I doubt that anyone would pay that much... ;-) ) The wind was sustained at over 85 knots, gust to something that my anemometer could not measure, and the seas were 45 feet and at their worst very organized .)

We got knocked down twice by breaking waves (not pushed over by the wind!). The boom brake did a wonderful job in these conditions, so did the triple reefed main, the Ericson Hull construction when the next wave broke ON US, the wind vane steering (Right up till the knock downs), and mere minutes later the parachute sea anchor did amazing things I would not have believed possible from a piece of fabric with some strange darts in it!!! ( It is a really long story about really strange weather and sea state changes happening faster than I would have ever thought possible....)

We sat that out under sea anchor for two days. Four boats were lost, three others abandoned and all of us had scars to show when we reached Tonga. (Boat, human, and psyche). Now whenever anyone says that Ericsons are not really good sea boats, and that they would rather have heavy crabcrusher X, I just smile… Occasionally I’ll ask how many sea miles they have on crab crusher X, then go HMMMM….. and let them continue…

Back to the boom brake.... I did not like constantly having to get over the lines to get to the foredeck, I hated it most days, however it did work better than advertised. I plan on doing some experimenting on the 46 and seeing how well the end of the boom preventer works. I suspect that I am going to go back to swearing at a boom brake and the lines across the deck though.

For short handed crew using auto steering devices, I would say that either permanently rigged preventer or a boom brake is a very important safety device. Those auto steering devices do fail, and can send the boat into a gybe just when you are walking up to see how well that modeling clay in the hawse pipe is holding up..... I am more concerned after the 40,000 miles that we did in the big blue with the boom hitting a crewmember than I am about getting pasted to the life lines in a Vende Globe boat :). (But that could just be that I have never been invited to sail on a Vende Globe boat ??? :) )

Guy
:)
 
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ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
Guy,

Sounds like you would recommend the boom brake then? I am curious if it will help me pull off gybes singlehanded in say 20-25kts. We rarely see anything over 25 on the chesapeake and in fact don't often see 20. I dont have any offshore aspirations for this boat for a few more years and even then its only going to be up tp New England, Maine, or Nova Scotia. No pond crossings. It would be great however if this device would allow me to set it up, then when I was ready to gybe just throw the helm over and let the boom brake do its thing. I am not sure though if that is possible, and if it ends up needing two people to pull it off then its not really worth it to me. I can and do rig a preventer so that funtion is already taken care of. I worry about the sail being let out enough after the gybe. Someone mentioned that earlier, and if it does not go out enough you will likely round up after the gybe is completed, then risking a broach? Good thread here guys, I appreciate the input.
 

NateHanson

Sustaining Member
I'm sure guy can give a more complete answer, but I'd venture that if you had your boom all the way out (ddw) and threw the helm over without sheeting it in, you'd turn about 50 degrees before the roach was backwinded and the boom started to gybe across. So you'd be gybing with the wind on your beam in heavy weather, and that sounds like a good way to get a cockpit full of water (broach).

FWIW, passaging between Mass and Maine, I've more often than not had winds over 25 knots at some point in the trip (the other half of the trips we don't see winds over 10 knots :rolleyes: )
 
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ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
Nate I think your right here. I guess there is not free lunch. I 'll just have to buy some electric winches with remote controls to gybe that sucker... Hopefully my crew/wife will be able to help more when the kids are a little bigger and she doesn't need to sit with them below when ever we get bad weather.
 
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