Temporary Sheave Band aid

[chris85green]

Hello all, this is my first post on this site. My name is Chris and I own a '79 Ericson 35-2. I went up the mast recently to try and get my halyards moving again, one has ball stops that got jammed in the sheaves and the other halyard line broke. Both are spliced line to wire. Once up there it was evident that the sheaves are trash, they do not move and it doesn't look like getting them to move is a likely option. I called the boatyard today and it will be $1000 for unstepping and stepping plus $15/day to work on my mast (Ventura). For now, I have the jib halyard up since i was up there i just hauled it up manually and fed the line through the masthead myself as the new 8mm dyneema jammed trying to get through the groove that is apparently fit or has worn to the wire diameter. My pirmary question here is this, I will me taking down the mast but i dont have the funds or time to do all of that right now, and I had a thought. Could i run a piece of high density nylon with a bottom profile that matches the wire groove and a top profile that would allow the dyneema line to run over the top of the two sheeves, so then the rope would just run over the top of them with minimal friction? Obvioulsy working sheaves would be far better and less potential wear on the line but until i take it down its $18 for the HD Nylon and $150 for a new line. with this Id think i can at least run my main up and down a few times until early 2023 when i can pull the mast. I have attached a little diagram for a visual.
Second question, what is the size of the old E 35-2 Sheaves and Pin? I wanted to swap them while the mast was up but it seems with the rigging in the way thats unlikely. So maybe I can order them in advanced and not pay for so many lay days. Thanks in advance for any help!!

 

[Kenneth K]

Hmm....

With fore- and aft-sheaves, I would guess that, normally, the forward sheave is for the jib halyard, the aft for the main, and that both lines would travel down the middle of the mast to exit plates.



If you wanted to run ony a single halyard (jib OR main), I suppose you could run it over both sheaves so that both the sail end and the free end both run outside the mast.

As to the HD nylon track: What holds it in place as the line tugs across it? Can you machine, locate, and fasten it sufficiently so that the ends won't catch on, and abrade the line or pull the nylon off the sheaves?

If it works, maybe you get one or two uses out of it, but I wouldn't expect it to work repeatedly for very long. And I wouldn't run new, pricey dyneema line over it, but some old, worn stay-set I could cut down if it jams under use.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

. . . . . I called the boatyard today and it will be $1000 for unstepping and stepping plus $15/day to work on my mast (Ventura). . . . . . . Obvioulsy working sheaves would be far better and less potential wear on the line but until i take it down its $18 for the HD Nylon and $150 for a new line. with this Id think i can at least run my main up and down a few times until early 2023 when i can pull the mast. I have attached a little diagram for a visual.
. . . .

Would it be worth having a rigger quote for replacing them with the mast up? It might be cheaper to pay them to go up the mast and replace the sheaves than having the mast pulled.

 

[HerbertFriedman]

I have a similar problem with the spin sheave on my E34, it is frozen. I dont use a spin so I just live with a frozen sheave. But the yard tech who went up the mast to view the problem said he could replace the sheave using the yard's bucket, apparently the yard will only go aloft using the crane and bucket, and I fully understand that from a liability point of view. But the tech said that if something went wrong, he would have to pull the mast ($$$) so I decided to leave it alone. Next haulout I may have him try to change the sheaves for both the spin and main and hope he is successful doing it aloft. I probably will prepare the rig (remove the main and boom and remove all the pins and electrical wires).

 

[Loren Beach]

Brutal Math..... but it is what it is.
At about $100/hour, it looks like a good rigger could do this in less than a work day total. Save you some $.
He/she would need a competent helper below to put parts and tools into the bucket being lowered. Said 'helper' to wear a hard hat and stay alert. Power tools might be involved.
And even then that spar might still need to be dropped.
I wonder if there is a nearby yard with a more competitive rate??

 

[Christian Williams]

Related thread:

Masthead sheaves frozen.

My Ericson 35-2 . Both my main and jib sheaves are frozen solid making it almost impossible to raise the main. Jib is on roller furling when I took jib sail down to clean it. It also was very hard to raise. I had one guy go up the mast and he sprayed pb blaster on sheaves and could brake them...

ericsonyachts.org

I would consult with a local rigger, if you can get one to respond. [

 

[bgary]

replacing them with the mast up

IMHO, it's doable with the mast up, but the rigger would have to understand how the masthead is configured.

My masthead, for example, has 4 sheaves on 3 pins (one pin supports the main-halyard sheave, one for the centerline/jib-halyard sheave, and one supports BOTH of the spinnaker halyard sheaves).

The issue is that when the pin is pulled the sheaves are free to drop down into the mast... and maybe not all the way to the bottom. So if a rigger just "pulls the pin", it's going to go badly.

I took a length of 550-cord (parachute cord), ran it around the circumference of the sheave, tied it tight, and then secured the bitter end to a shroud. That made it so that if it dropped, I could retrieve it and maneuver it back into place when it came time to re-insert the pin.

I did mine on the ground, but the above should work with the mast up, too.



$.02
Bruce

 

[Tin Kicker]

First is to forget any thought of using the $18 Home Depot nylon rope. The 3/8" (~10 mm) has a working load of only 279 lbs, which is MASSIVELY insufficient to pull an 8,000 lb boat through the water in anything but the lightest breeze. I would also not consider it to support me and my 200 lb ass for climbing the mast or using as a safety line. There's a reason that stuff is as cheap as it is.

As bgary pointed out, sheaves can be replaced with the mast up. The problem would be feeding a new halyard to replace the broken one.

I feel your pain about the price to pull the mast. Sooner or later I need to do it to simply replace 3 wires and an antenna cable. Of course I'll also replace the sheaves and do the other stuff while the mast is down, but yes it is expensive and needs to be done at some point.

 

[bgary]

The problem would be feeding a new halyard to replace the broken one.

Not that big a problem, and should be simple for an experienced rigger (although, I think any owner should be able to do it if needed)

FWIW, my process here: https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/thread...hreading-main-halyard-e33rh.19832/post-155799

B

 

[G Kiba]

Nylon stretches! So 279 lb capacity quickly becomes less to 0 as load is applied and it breaks. As a kid, I watched some older kids rig up a nylon line tied to a high tree branch on one end and to the base of another tree to form an angle. They rode a pulley with handles attached to it down the rope. Great fun until the line snapped on the third kid. Right before the fall, the kid said "watch the rope break on my turn". And it did. Left me with an unforgettable memory about nylon rope!

 

[Pete the Cat]

I would not under estimate the power of P Blaster over time to loosen your present sheaves. Mine appeared frozen and I could not unstick them after an hour of trying on the mast. Sprayed with P Blaster. Came back a couple days later and could not believe they ever were stuck. Was able to pull the pins and service stuff with the mast up as others have suggested. I am not sure this would work in every situation, but patience sometimes has a reward.

 

[chris85green]

Hmm....

With fore- and aft-sheaves, I would guess that, normally, the forward sheave is for the jib halyard, the aft for the main, and that both lines would travel down the middle of the mast to exit plates.

View attachment 44722

If you wanted to run ony a single halyard (jib OR main), I suppose you could run it over both sheaves so that both the sail end and the free end both run outside the mast.

As to the HD nylon track: What holds it in place as the line tugs across it? Can you machine, locate, and fasten it sufficiently so that the ends won't catch on, and abrade the line or pull the nylon off the sheaves?

If it works, maybe you get one or two uses out of it, but I wouldn't expect it to work repeatedly for very long. And I wouldn't run new, pricey dyneema line over it, but some old, worn stay-set I could cut down if it jams under use.

I actually figured if I pulled the mast that I would try to alter my sheaves so that it was as your diagram shows. I have four sheaves, two aft and tow fore. So both halyards actually run over two sheaves currently. My thought was to set a screw in each side that would be sub-flush to the nylon and hold in the original sheave body. I agree it would not last too long but enough for me to get a few sails. The issue is im a very new sailor and I havent really sailed my boat much as I primarily bought it to live on with the future goal of sailing. I have been sailing the boats from our local SB sailing center learning and now I'm more amped to get my own boat functioning.

 

[chris85green]

Would it be worth having a rigger quote for replacing them with the mast up? It might be cheaper to pay them to go up the mast and replace the sheaves than having the mast pulled.

I like this idea, I will call the riggers soon and get that quote, thanks.

 

[chris85green]

I e

IMHO, it's doable with the mast up, but the rigger would have to understand how the masthead is configured.

My masthead, for example, has 4 sheaves on 3 pins (one pin supports the main-halyard sheave, one for the centerline/jib-halyard sheave, and one supports BOTH of the spinnaker halyard sheaves).

The issue is that when the pin is pulled the sheaves are free to drop down into the mast... and maybe not all the way to the bottom. So if a rigger just "pulls the pin", it's going to go badly.

I took a length of 550-cord (parachute cord), ran it around the circumference of the sheave, tied it tight, and then secured the bitter end to a shroud. That made it so that if it dropped, I could retrieve it and maneuver it back into place when it came time to re-insert the pin.

I did mine on the ground, but the above should work with the mast up, too.



$.02
Bruce

I either read your post about you doing this or someone elses which was very similar and that was my hope when i went up last weekend. I would love to have just pulled it while i was up there. Im worried because the clearance to get sheaves in and out of the mast head seems too small and with the fore and aft stays in place there is even less clearance. I suppose since they are busted I can not make them worse. I will get a quote from a rigger and see what they think, if cost is reasonable I may pay them to do it for me otherwise I will go back up and take things apart. If the top of the mast had a nice lid that would be so ideal for removing these things, why its welded on I have zero clue. Thanks for your reply!

 

[chris85green]

Nylon stretches! So 279 lb capacity quickly becomes less to 0 as load is applied and it breaks. As a kid, I watched some older kids rig up a nylon line tied to a high tree branch on one end and to the base of another tree to form an angle. They rode a pulley with handles attached to it down the rope. Great fun until the line snapped on the third kid. Right before the fall, the kid said "watch the rope break on my turn". And it did. Left me with an unforgettable memory about nylon rope!

The Nylon I was referring too is a hard high density bar of nylon I would machine to essentially make a low friction track and the dyneema line would just run over that rather than the sheaves.

 

[chris85green]

I would not under estimate the power of P Blaster over time to loosen your present sheaves. Mine appeared frozen and I could not unstick them after an hour of trying on the mast. Sprayed with P Blaster. Came back a couple days later and could not believe they ever were stuck. Was able to pull the pins and service stuff with the mast up as others have suggested. I am not sure this would work in every situation, but patience sometimes has a reward.

I did spray pb blaster in there while I was up on top. I will go back to the boat this weekend and see if it did its thing. That would be fantastic if it worked.

 

[chris85green]

Well update, called rigger and he said that if I went back up that I should try to free the sheaves with a hammer and screw driver and knock it free. He almost guaranteed it would free up. I attempted this yesterday and it was not budging. The screw driver was a giant flat head and just kind of ate its way into the sheave material. I see the pin that goes through the sheaves and am thinking if i bring the right tools I could likely knock them out to replace the sheaves. What I noticed is that the sheaves are far too large to come out with the booms back stay and masts aft stay in place.
My new question is, can I drop the aft stay while also being at the top of the mast? I dont want to come falling to the dock while riding my mast on its way down.

 

[goldenstate]

How are you climbing the mast without moving halyards?

Could you lash two big turning blocks fore and aft on the masthead and use those as surrogate sheaves until you pull the mast?

Having removed a recalcitrant Knurled pin from my boom at home on the ground, I would give myself roughly 1,000,000,000 to 1 chances that I could remove a masthead pin from a bosun’s chair without losing parts down the mast, into the marina, sending a hammer through my neighbor’s boat, etc.

I would save up money and pull the mast, Probably needs new lights and wires, right? How old is the standing rigging? The worms, they come in cans.

PB blaster and some narrow channel lock pliers would be my next step. Get the wire halyard out of the way by pulling through a lightweight messenger line. Maybe a blowtorch to warm up the (aluminum?) sheave. Then try to grab the sheave with the pliers and turn.

 

[chris85green]

Well the wire halyard still travels through the sheaves so I clip myself into that with a person belaying (climbing gear) from bottom. My jib halyard which is up, I use to devices called ascenders and have a foot loop in one, and a second one tied into my harness. I stand up and then take my weight with the waist mounted ascender. then move the foot up and repeat. my belayer just takes the slack as a back up. Tertiary back up is a strand of cordelette clipped to the harness then around the mast and then back into my harness. IF there was a fall Id be snagged by a set of spreaders, and be hurt but not dead. one at the top I build an anchor and clip into that so i can unweight the lines to work on the sheaves.

The sheaves are not aluminum, they appear to be some kind of fiber based material. I do agree though, getting that pin out while sitting in my harness will be a pain if possible at all. I hammered it a few times and it did not budge but i had only brought a rubber mallet up with me.

I have not thought about using a turning block. I dont know what that is but I will look into it and see if thats doable. YEs the wiring will likely need replacing and so will the rigging at some point. Its all together just going to be such a cost

How are you climbing the mast without moving halyards?

Could you lash two big turning blocks fore and aft on the masthead and use those as surrogate sheaves until you pull the mast?

Having removed a recalcitrant Knurled pin from my boom at home on the ground, I would give myself roughly 1,000,000,000 to 1 chances that I could remove a masthead pin from a bosun’s chair without losing parts down the mast, into the marina, sending a hammer through my neighbor’s boat, etc.

I would save up money and pull the mast, Probably needs new lights and wires, right? How old is the standing rigging? The worms, they come in cans.

PB blaster and some narrow channel lock pliers would be my next step. Get the wire halyard out of the way by pulling through a lightweight messenger line. Maybe a blowtorch to warm up the (aluminum?) sheave. Then try to grab the sheave with the pliers and turn.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

You've earned one of Jeff's official Can O' Worms Awards!

*No help here, just commiseration.