Stumped - Water in bilge

[ignacio]

Each time I have the boat underway and under power for at least 30 minutes or so, I end up with about 2-3" of water in the bilge (E-35-2). Since the bilge is rather spread out on this boat (vs. my E27 deep bilge), that's a pretty good amount of water. I have a PSS dripless shaft seal, but it is actually doing it's job: no leaks whatsoever from there. I've checked all through hulls, the exhaust, the raw water intake, the head, depth/speed instruments....all the same. No visible signs of that much water coming in. It only comes in when the motor is on, and only when the boat is actually moving through the water under power. No water when under sail, and no water when I'm tied at the dock in forward gear in the slip (tested this for 30 minutes at 2300 rpms a few times). And no water when sitting at the dock.

Anyone have any theories on this one? Oh, and yes, it is salty.

 

[Loren Beach]

Mystery water ingress

I was frustrated by a similar "leak" for years...
Finally cured it when I replaced the transom thru hulls. There were some inside cracks in the old original plastic "above water" thru hulls that would be often at the surface or under water from a climbing stern wave when sailing or motoring hard enough to drag along a wave.

Does your boat have some thru hulls under the curve of the aft hull within inches of the static waterline?

While our hulls are different, this seems like something that could maybe occur in any boat over 25 years old or so.

If the thru hull fittings are good, how are the hoses that are clamped to them? Those old ribbed bilge hoses get brittle and start cracking after 15 or 20 years, too.

Good luck and good hunting!

Best,
Loren

 

[Mark F]

Hi Ignacio,

Loren might be on to something. I had a similar leak on an E23. The transom (above the waterline) thru-hull was made with three parts, "mushroom" inner and outer pieces with a short metal tube connecting them. The tube had corroded and every time I motored I would get a lot of water in the shallow bilge. I spent weeks trying to hunt down the leak. When I found it I squirted silicone into the tube and spread it around with my finger. The leak stopped completely. I did eventually rebuild the thru-hull.

 

[exoduse35]

Check the top of the rudder post. Mine leaks there under the same conditions. I have repacked it several times without success. There seems to be a steady flow from under the fuel tank. Loren may also be on to something. If you fix it, PLEASE share how! Edd
PS.No leak when sailing and that is what the boat is supposed to be for so I guess it is not a design defect!

 

[ignacio]

I haven't actually checked the rear through-hulls since they were above the water line (but only slightly). I'll check them next time I'm out. I don't actually recall seeing any water coming in from the rear, but then again, I haven't looked that hard back there either. That could explain why the bottom of my original steel fuel tank has some rust on the bottom side. The surveyor did say that there seemed to be a leak at the rudder post as well, but I have never actually seen it.

In any event, I'm planning on hauling out in a few weeks, and will likely simply replace/seal all of those above water line through hulls and get that rudder post/bushing replaced and repacked.

Thanks, fellas, for your thoughts on this. I'll post progress.

 

[mherrcat]

Sometimes I get water in the bilge when I don't expect it. Hadn't thought of the transom through hulls...

 

[MarkA]

I had a similar problem. Mine was coming in from the top of the rudder tube. When motoring, my stern sits lower in the water, and I was taking on a lot of water. When sailing, I needed to be heeled well over for that to happen. I had it repacked and now it's bone dry.

Oh, and a couple times I had water backing up into my head sink and overflowing. Oops.

 

[Tom Metzger]

Ignacio - I can't speak for your E-35-2, but on the later designs when under power the stern squats down and puts the bilge pump thru hull under water. The water siphons into the bilge and the bilge pump pumps it back out again. I noticed the pump cycling continuously. I solved the problem by putting an anti siphon device in the bilge pump hose at the stern which was the highest point.

If you are used to a dry bilge this could be your problem.

There was a thread about it several years ago, but I can't find it.

 

[Willpatten]

One more possibility...

I got water in the bilge of our 38-200 that I couldn't find until I saw a leak on the lift muffler which is tucked away between the engine compartment and the starboard cockpit locker. Fiberglass muffler was leaking at the intake hose.

 

[Mindscape]

Rudder Post

I too have had the rudder post leak. I replaced the original screws that compress the packing, which seemed to always work loose. I believe it must of been leaking for awhile and the PO never did much about it, with the screws loose the holes became elongated allowing the bushing rotate, which in turn would eventually loosen the screws after I tightened them. Replaced the original screws with bolts and ny-lock nuts and have not had any issues since. It's a pain to work back there, but it's not too bad to see if it's leaking. Mindscape squats down as described in an earlier post when under power and that was when I saw the worst of the leak. When sailing in wavey conditions or healed over in heavier winds I did see some small leaking.
Good luck!

 

[Rocinante33]

cornstarch!

Sprinkle some cornstarch powder around down there around all those areas mentioned by others in this post. Then go for a little cruise. The water coming in will have to leave a trail through the powder on it's inexorable journey to the bilge. That should reveal the culprit, I think.

 

[mherrcat]

If you have an anti-siphon vent line you might want to check for leaks along that as well. A leak here could also explain why it only occurs when the engine is running.

 

[Akavishon]

I too had the rudder post leak, and indeed it was better under sail, and worse under engine.
Also, the anchor well on my E32-3 has a drain tube that exists on the bow, just above the water line. Under way, the bow wave will push water up that drain tube, maybe a couple of inches. The drain tube may not be sealed properly to the hull, or the anchor well.

 

[Gmilburn]

Bilge Water

One more theory--albeit only a slight one. I had overloaded the v-berth of my boat while at the dock, and over time some of the water seepage into the Solon over time made its way to the hull under the bow (near my holding tank). Then when I either sailed or motored, that water would migrate back to the bilge--running downhill. I too was perplexed and checked all my through hulls and other possibilities, but noticed that both my solon floor access hatches showed a path of recent water. Again, maybe a fluke on my boat, but worth mentioning.

 

[Lawrence B. Lee]

What about the motor?

Just a thought but since this water appears only when the motor is running is it possible that something is dripping in that area? Just saying...if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck etc etc. There is a lot of pressure involved when the diesel is pounding away. Hoses, heat exchanger, raw water pump etc etc. <label for="rb_iconid_16">

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Larry Lee
Annabel Lee E 32-200
Savannah, GA

 

[ignacio]

Found it!

I went out for a sail yesterday with some friends. While heeled about 20 degrees, I went down below to inspect. Sure enough, there I saw the top of the rudder tube in all its gurgling glory.

So the question now is: how the heck does one fix this?? Sounds like I'll need to haulout, remove the rudder/quadrant/steering cables?

Thanks in advance,

Ignacio

 

[Mindscape]

Easy stuff first

You might first try just tightening the screws that hold the packing collar in place around the rudder post. You might get lucky and fix the problem, or at least stem the tide.

 

[ignacio]

You might first try just tightening the screws that hold the packing collar in place around the rudder post. You might get lucky and fix the problem, or at least stem the tide.

Makes sense. I have a very amateur question though about those screws: what do they screw into? Another steel (?) part of the packing collar/gland assembly? Looks like there are 3 or 4 of them.

 

[Mindscape]

Packing gland

Yes they screw into the bottom half of the collar, or they did originally on my boat. The holes on the top half of the collar on my boat had worn and were elongated and allowed the top part of the collar to turn and caused the screws to continuously work loose. Once you tighten the screws you might want to look as someone turns the wheel if the collar is moving or not. I prevented this by replacing the screws with thru bolts and nylon nuts that wouldn't work loose.
I assume I will have to repack the stuffing at some point but this was a lot easier in the short term.

 

[ignacio]

Mission accomplished

I ended up getting some help with this one. Turns out that not only had the packing not been replaced for many years, but the screws holding the two parts of the collar together had been screwed down all the way and over time, the top portion of the collar had become warped: the collar dipped at each screw location, and then raised in between them. I had the top bronze piece resurfaced, but it obviously wore away material. In addition to that, the yard fabricated a 1/2" layer of G10 to act as a compression plate that sits just below the top collar and directly compresses the packing material below it. The leak has been substantially reduced. I no longer fill the bilge and have to pump it out several times in a normal day's sailing/motoring. I took my boat out this weekend for a full 8 hours, 2 hrs motoring, and 6 sailing, 4 of which were pretty hard sailing. I got maybe 1/2" of water in the bilge.

Also, I had a bit of slop in the rudder, notably at the top of the rudder post where the post penetrates the cockpit sole. The yard corrected this with some shims. The rudder feels secure and stable now.

Thanks to all for the guidance and suggestions!