Retractable lazy jack (similar to EZ jack or jiffy jack)

[Loren Beach]

I took a photo today of the spar while it's down. Not all the spreaders are mounted on the cross bars at present, altho the new standing rig is in place.
This shows one of the two little blocks (on one side, and same on opposite side) for the lazy jack line(s). Also visible is the keeper for the T-fiting for the running backstay/checkstay on that side.

Where to put that little lazy jack tackle block.... Probably several correct or at least acceptable answers to the placement of the block, but this install was done by the guys at UKSails NW, just down the street at a marina by their Sidney loft. I was willing to let them do the deciding, altho they did ask my opinion on how far up the spar I wanted it -- I deferred to their expertise.

 

[goldenstate]

Loren - thanks for asking about spreaders etc.. There are certainly ways that if suddenly loaded, the lazy jacks could put undue stress on the spreaders.

I have a topping lift and a rope vang. The lift bears the weight of the boom when sail is down.

The way my spreaders work is that a solid aluminum bar spans the mast for the upper and lower:



Then, a hollow sleeve slides over the end of the bar protruding from the mast. (Pre-cleaning shot here)



So, I have a high degree of confidence in the strength of the spreaders close to the mast, and much less at the cantilevered ends.

One design question that remains for me is whether to choose an eye bolt type fastener that spans the spreader or an eye strap that I would mount on the bottom of the spreader.

The eye bolt would be easier to install and stronger. I would not need to tap the hole. It might let more water into my mast, but I could probably address this with some high-up unsightly caulk.

The eye strap would be more of a pain to install because I will be swinging around in my bosun's chair drilling upside down and tapping.
If the boom dropped and instantly loaded the jacks, I would expect the tapped threads for the strap fasteners would be the failure point for the whole system. Maybe I want that?

After thinking it through (particularly the installation part, I am leaning toward the eye-bolts. Anyone have suggestions?

 

[G Kiba]

Tom! Eye strap with small screws or aluminum rivets is my vote! The strap can become your weak point if you are afraid of loading up your lazy jacks. Personally, I don't see it as a very high risk. But then I don't have 1/4" amsteel line on it. I have found that 3/16 or 1/8 more that sufficient and also very strong. BTW, the eye strap is the most common way to fly burgees and flags. That is, If you plan any international travel or join a YC.

 

[goldenstate]

Thanks Grant. I looked at my 1/4" lifelines this afternoon and I think they are certainly large enough for lazy jacks.
Maybe I could go smaller.

I hadn't thought of rivets, so that is an excellent idea. Much easier than tapping for a machine screw.

 

[Christian Williams]

Sure, aluminum rivets. Or just screw them in. The force on them is that of a flag halyard.

 

[Loren Beach]

Your spreader roots are secured to the alum. bar with two pins. Ours have two similar diameter SS bolts. It seems like you could replace the outer pin on each side with a SS eye bolt and have the nylock nut on top. If worried, drill the end of the bolt first and put a split pin thru it, on top of the nut.
Problem solved.
Ya think?

 

[Sailingfun]

Actually the spring return in our rod vang does a great job of holding up the boom, even with the weight of the furled sail.
However----- with the main sheet tight, the boom will still swing several feet from side to side if you push it or lean on it.
Visitors and crew have to be cautioned about this outcome when/if they lean on it while standing on the housetop.

That's because the springs in the tube compress and allow boom lateral movement. When we drop the sail the main halyard is immediately brought back and clipped onto the end of the boom, tightened up, and then the main sheet is socked up tight.

We like the rod vang and would not want to go back to the old system with a topping lift snagging on the battens on our main, but like all solutions, there are always some new problems appearing.

I agree with Loren. My sailboat does not have toping luft but a mechanical very strong vang system. If I lose the boom, it's just sitting there (well, the boom is very light).
I was checking yesterday how to install the lines and agree 5/16 (8 mm) looks enough; I was thinking on 3/8 (10 mm) but even my main halyard is 8mm.
Now, I gonna back to the drawing table for the final design and post here the final design and result.
I just bought a Kinleven ladder (another marvelous invention for big guys like me who don't like to be hoisted up at mast) So one time I got it, will start all work at the top of the mast, then, start coming down installing the block at top of the mast and come down with the rest.
Will keep you posted.
For those curious about the mast ladder, this is the link:

Yacht Mast Ladder - Kinleven Marine

Sailboat Mast Ladders Made-to-Measure to provide safer & easier solo mast-climbing access, in port or at sea.

kinlevenmarine.com

 

[Christian Williams]

That ladder is a new one on me, looking forward to your report about how it works.

 

[goldenstate]

Your spreader roots are secured to the alum. bar with two pins. Ours have two similar diameter SS bolts. It seems like you could replace the outer pin on each side with a SS eye bolt and have the nylock nut on top. If worried, drill the end of the bolt first and put a split pin thru it, on top of the nut.
Problem solved.
Ya think?

I don't think so. The point is to widen the upper attachment point to permit the jacks to drop the sail evenly without the fabric or battens catching on the way down. The outer clevis pin for the aluminum bar only extends about 6" outside the mast body.

I'm still using my ATN mastclimber.

 

[JPS27]

I agree with Loren. My sailboat does not have toping luft but a mechanical very strong vang system. If I lose the boom, it's just sitting there (well, the boom is very light).
I was checking yesterday how to install the lines and agree 5/16 (8 mm) looks enough; I was thinking on 3/8 (10 mm) but even my main halyard is 8mm.
Now, I gonna back to the drawing table for the final design and post here the final design and result.
I just bought a Kinleven ladder (another marvelous invention for big guys like me who don't like to be hoisted up at mast) So one time I got it, will start all work at the top of the mast, then, start coming down installing the block at top of the mast and come down with the rest.
Will keep you posted.
For those curious about the mast ladder, this is the link:

Yacht Mast Ladder - Kinleven Marine

Sailboat Mast Ladders Made-to-Measure to provide safer & easier solo mast-climbing access, in port or at sea.

kinlevenmarine.com

Interesting ladder. Please report how it works for you. What do they offer for safety if going up without someone on a winch and extra halyard? I've been considering the atn mast climber, and have borrowed one a couple of times. But recent back issues are making that more difficult.

 

[Sailingfun]

ATN mast climber is for young people. I'm 55 and overweight... I used to use an ATN and go up at 75' of the mast, work 5 hours, come down, go to a bar and end my night with somebody at 6 am, and back at work again... Not anymore... The ladder is scheduled to arrive on February 9 so on February 10 I will post pictures of my adventures to the top of the mast..

 

[Dave G.]

Tom, Just an observation fwiw...My LJ lines are on the mast and even at the dock when I move the boom to one side of the traveler you can see tension change in lines. I think the bigger the space on the Lazy Jack legs up high will translate into looser lines to allow your boom to move fully without yanking on the opposing lines. Not sure that you can really get wide enough to eliminate the leach/battens from hanging when raising the sail, it's just more of a technique then space and if indeed your lines had to be looser it may even be more problematic. As I said earlier dropping the sail is never an issue as the geometry of the LJ lines and leach are reversed, nothing to hang on.

 

[1911tex]

I just bought a Kinleven ladder (another marvelous invention for big guys like me who don't like to be hoisted up at mast) So one time I got it, will start all work at the top of the mast, then, start coming down installing the block at top of the mast and come down with the rest.
Will keep you posted.
For those curious about the mast ladder, this is the link:

Yacht Mast Ladder - Kinleven Marine

Sailboat Mast Ladders Made-to-Measure to provide safer & easier solo mast-climbing access, in port or at sea.

kinlevenmarine.com

I am not the bravest sole going aloft on the mast; however buying a combination of the Kinleven ladder and a quality construction harness rather than a bosuns chair, is about the cost of twice hiring someone to climb your mast. Combined they are very comforting and secure...you will find yourself going up and checking things out more frequently as well!

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BDKPDB2/ref=sspa_dk_detail_0?pd_rd_i=B00BDKPDB2&pd_rd_w=4BLdA&pf_rd_p=14ceaa6a-1e28-4d0f-a108-58cc89c508f1&pd_rd_wg=HAeM4&pf_rd_r=VTMBQM8XR5SWGGMQY8VR&pd_rd_r=6d596add-7d87-4292-877d-98a63eca5e6a&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzT1FZNU5HMDhTTVlNJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwOTMyMDY5M0lHSVdCUVVXRTI2SiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNDkyMzUwMlhVMU4yOFYwWkxLRCZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2RldGFpbF90aGVtYXRpYyZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1

 

[goldenstate]

Tom, Just an observation fwiw...My LJ lines are on the mast and even at the dock when I move the boom to one side of the traveler you can see tension change in lines. I think the bigger the space on the Lazy Jack legs up high will translate into looser lines to allow your boom to move fully without yanking on the opposing lines. Not sure that you can really get wide enough to eliminate the leach/battens from hanging when raising the sail, it's just more of a technique then space and if indeed your lines had to be looser it may even be more problematic. As I said earlier dropping the sail is never an issue as the geometry of the LJ lines and leach are reversed, nothing to hang on.

Thanks, that makes sense. The lazy jack lines on the windward would definitely have to be slack enough to allow the boom to swing fully.
I hadn't thought about that - good point.

 

[Kch]

On the lazy jacks I made for my previous boat I put the smallest jib hank on the bottom of each leg. I installed the eye straps on the boom and clipped the hanks into them. When not in use I just unclipped the lazy jacks from the boom and clipped them onto a line attached to the lieline.
Kevin

 

[goldenstate]

Good talk. Design attached. Looking like a hundred dollar project, give or take.

View attachment 37008
Rope: 1/4" Regatta braid (single braid I know how to eye splice from my lifeline project) 20% overage for splicing and mis-measuring.
https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=3894109# 172 feet @ $0.42 per = $84

Nylon thimbles. Those $12 rings look cool, but these are $0.69 per and won't bear much weight or scratch up my mast.
https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=35360

Eye straps to connect to mast and spreaders. Little Harken 073's. I have some left over from elsewhere
Need to buy 2 more. $2 bucks each.

Cleats to secure line on mast:

Suncor Stainless Steel Flag Pole Cleat

The Flagpole Cleat is available in two sizes, 2-1/2" or 4-1/2" and is easily installed using #8 or #10 screws. This cleat is made from grade 304 stainless steel for maximum corrosion resistance and durability, which is perfect for outdoor environments. Fe

www.defender.com

Little stainless guys. They will work. Hope they don't get in the way.

I'll need to do some surgery on my sail cover when complete. If not now then when? If not I then whom?

Did I miss anything?

1/4" rope too narrow?

I ordered my materials today. Up to $147.

I decided the little 2.5" stainless cleats would be too small for the 1/4" rope so bumped up to some 4" anodized aluminum ones.

Schaefer Anodized Aluminum Deck Cleat

Specifications: Open Base Deck Cleat (2) Hole Mounting

www.defender.com

I decided to go with eye straps mounted upside down. These looked like would chafe less than the Harken 073's I had in my first list.

Suncor Stainless Steel Round Eye Strap

Features: Ideal for marine, industrial, architectural, and OEM applications Round cross section helps prevent rope chaffing Made from grade 304 stainless steel for maximum corrosion resistance, durability Size indicates maximum inside dia

www.defender.com

As for the line diameter, the Harken lazy jack kit comes with 5/16" line but only has a couple of lines to the boom.

Harken Medium Lazy Jack System for Mainsails - 253

Harken's Medium Lazy Jack Systems contain mainsails while reefing and dousing. They work extremely well with full-batten mains, but can also be used with conventional sails. Features: Contain mainsails while reefing and dousing The sail drops bet

www.defender.com

I think the 1/4" regatta braid will be fine for my design.

 

[steven]

why 5/16 ? I use 1/8. There really is hardly any load on them.
Or am I missing something ?

 

[Dave G.]

Mine are 1/8 also, 5/16 definitely too big(and heavy).

 

[goldenstate]

Mine are 1/8 also, 5/16 definitely too big(and heavy).

I think Harken wants to sell 5/16" pulleys with their kits?

For your 1/8th lines, did you tie knots or make eye splices?

If spliced, did you use any kind of thimbles or rings or just let the rope slide on itself?

 

[Christian Williams]

This is a really good application of 1/8th Spectra, it's slippery so thimbles in eye splices is all you need, and the gray color is just about invisible.