Retractable lazy jack (similar to EZ jack or jiffy jack)

[Sailingfun]

In the wonderful world of ideas, I would love to see a retractable sail pack, along with the lazy jack.
I never found any but given my choice, I prefer a lazy jack system that can be retractable (like the jiffy jack) but can be built by myself ($$ are scarce at the end of this long refit).
Does anyone have a clear diagram of a retractable lazy jack like the EZ jack or the jiffy jack?
Although I can think of a similar system by myself, it seems to me that if I make it retractable, I will have a mess of lines with the reefing lines that go to the cockpit.
Any idea or diagram will be appreciated

 

[Geoff W.]

I have retractable lazzy jacks on my boat. I don't have an exact rigging diagram right now, but it's similar to this, except at the front of my boom are little swivel cam cleats so I can just pull down and cleat off right there.



When stowing the lazy jacks, I pull the whole bundle of lines from aft to forward and tuck them behind the reefing hook at the front of the boom. I then tension the lazyjacks back in the cleat.

 

[Christian Williams]

I would not be without lazyjacks as a sailor without working crew. But jeez, they are not without storage issues.

I hate my "slotted" sail cover, which has 55 snaps so the lazyjacks can stay rigged at all times.

A few weeks ago I closed the slots and led the lines to the mast, to see if that made use of the sail cover easier. But the lazyjacks didn't make a neat attachment and required a few extra lines to dress them. Then they slapped the mast like a halyard, and I had to tie them off. And then I had to rig them again to go sailing.

Anybody with crew eager to jump on the cabin house with sail ties doesn't need lazyjacks. But wait--if you have such a crew, why not have them put on and take off the 55-snap sail cover and quit complaining about it?

 

[Sailingfun]

I found this diagram on a french web. It's an improved version of the one Geoff W posted.
I think it's the easiest one because one of my points is to be able to handle the cockpit without the necessity to go at the mast.
Let's keep thinking...

 

[HerbertFriedman]

Does anyone see any reason why these retractable lazy jack systems should not work with a stack pack? In my stack pack the lazy jack lines do not terminate at the boom but rather on the top edge of the stack pack, they actually hold up the stack pack. So if those lazy jack lines are loosened and pulled again the mast, the tops of the stack pack go slack but I dont see any problem there. Re tensioning the lazy jack lines after the main sail is up, just re positions the stack pack. I would have to add two turning blocks up on the mast and more turning blocks at the mast base, however.

 

[Christian Williams]

The scheme in message #4 seems overly complicated. Here's my setup.

Lazy Jack Pros and Cons

My E28 had a lazy jack installed when I purchased it 14 months ago. It is the first time I have sailed with one, and I am still trying to determine if its benefit outweighs the trouble it causes. Obviously, the major benefit is that it is an efficient way to keep the mainsail tidy on the...

ericsonyachts.org

 

[Sailingfun]

Does anyone see any reason why these retractable lazy jack systems should not work with a stack pack? In my stack pack the lazy jack lines do not terminate at the boom but rather on the top edge of the stack pack, they actually hold up the stack pack. So if those lazy jack lines are loosened and pulled again the mast, the tops of the stack pack go slack but I dont see any problem there. Re tensioning the lazy jack lines after the main sail is up, just re positions the stack pack. I would have to add two turning blocks up on the mast and more turning blocks at the mast base, however.

That is my holy grail but I see a couple of problems.
If you lose the lazy jack where are going the sail pack? if you remove the lazy jack, maybe use velcro to hold the sail pack but again... in my case the reefing lines run parallel to the boom so I need those lines to need to be clean always. For a while, I was dreaming of a retractable sail pack to the mast but all my ideas ended on a cumbersome, not easy to handle under the wind installation.
But let's keep thinking!!

 

[nquigley]

Clever - would take some thoughtful measurements to get the lengths of the line segments right.
It sure would be fun to do some small-scale mock-ups to see how it works.
- I think I'd be OK without the smallest (magenta) triangle
- looks like the circles are low-friction rings - good use of them - they're expensive but this system would mostly need the smallest (cheapest) size.
- looks like the dark green line from A1 to P6 could just be the continuation of the P5-A1 red line
- I guess there could be a little jam cleat at P6.
- if you don't want the re-deployment 'halyard' coming down from P5, then P5 could be a terminus for the red line, and you could have a little jam cleat at P1, and just pull the A1-P1 section tight to re-deploy the system.

 

[HerbertFriedman]

I guess I dont see the problem. Let's say you have retractable lazy jack lines, either Christian's version with all control lines coming back to the cockpit or some other version where you have to go the mast to retract the lazy jack lines, whatever. Once the lazy jack lines are pulled against the mast, maybe not even all the way, just enough so that the upper battens of the mainsail dont get caught in the lazy jack lines, the upper edge of the sail pack certainly goes slack and each side probably falls back with each side flopping outside towards the gunnels. So what's the problem. Once the main sail is up, I would then re tension the lazy jack lines thereby raising the top edge of the sail pack to its original position, and then sail on. But the beauty of dropping the main right into the stack pack is awesome. I can hear the sighs of other sailors on board when I drop the main .....

I would like to implement such a system but it means going up the mast to add turning blocks. Right now at those positions, I have straps to which the lazy jack line is tied so they are fixed. All I would need to do is attach turning blocks to those straps and some other control lines, but at my age, going aloft is not a good idea. Maybe next haulout time.

Right now, my wife is pretty good a keeping the bow into the wind when we raise the main but if I do decide to go solo sailing .........

 

[steven]

I use a simple system in which (on each side) a single suspension line goes from the back of the boom to a turning block on the mast and down to a cleat on the mast. The crib is formed by two or three vertical drops independently spliced to the suspension line and tied off at the boom. There are pictures in some of the older sailing books/magazine before lazy jacks were for sale commercially. Very simple and owner installable at very low cost.

 

[G Kiba]

For most boats, those low friction rings are overkill. But then again, I have seen people use some humugus lines for lazy jacks and other controls! The previous owner put the rings on my jacks. All they really do well is bang against the mast. A simple eye splice works fine, is less expensive, and very quiet. Also, when flaked, my sail does not lie on the boom symmetrically. I found that lazy jacks work better staggered with one side shifted more aft than the other.

 

[Christian Williams]

For the record, my system adjusts on cleats on the mast. There would be no good reason to lead the lines back to the cockpit.

Spectra is the way to go nowadays, and it will slip easily through plastic thimbles in the eye splices.

 

[Loren Beach]

For the record, my system adjusts on cleats on the mast. There would be no good reason to lead the lines back to the cockpit.

Spectra is the way to go nowadays, and it will slip easily through plastic thimbles in the eye splices.

Same as ours, except that our "thimbles" are aluminum and hard coated with a slick finish. They are sold, in larger sizes for use in "twing" lines replacing heavier small blocks.

 

[Sailingfun]

I checked the price for those low friction ceramics and it's astronomic... I agree it's the perfect solution because looks very nice. I think the best solution is stainless steel rings because there is no pressure there.
On my diagram, the "up" line runs all way until a little block at P5, then down, block and cockpit.
The "low" line runs until a small block at the end of the boom, then, run parallel until the end of the boom.
One of the most important factors is being able to run everything from the cockpit.
Now... the boom on an E27 is really small and run 3 lines (2 reefing plus the low lazy jack line) will require a careful diagram of lines in order to be clear all lines under wind or on an emergency.

 

[K2MSmith]

I went back and forth on the lazy jack system so many times before I settled on my design and it is working great for me on my 33RH which has a 300 sq. ft main and a 14' boom.

Basically I opted for the simplest design. I have a similar layout to what Geoff W. posted in his diagram. We used 1/4" dyneema with a small pulley in each side of the mast (about 2/3 way up). Each side is separately retractable so that I can pull them to the mast (and along the bottom of the boom) and tie them off on a little 5" nylon cleat (1 on each side). The sail is then covered with a standard sail cover.

You have the choice of deploying your jacks at the dock before you sail or deploying later, in preparation for lowering the sail. There are advantages to each method. I kind of like to deploy them later because it makes for a really quick mainsail raise; you don't have to worry about battens getting caught on the jacks or sail alignment with midpoint of jacks.

After seeing the Vendee Globe race, where almost every boat had some sort of "stack pack" arrangement, I sort of regretted not going with a stack pack with integrated lazy jacks (and cover), but then a sailor next door to me in my slip warned me not to even consider a stack pack in our area as they get full of water when it rains. So, I am happy with my setup now

A things I've noticed since using them for several months (and others might want to comment).

- I choose a simple 3 leg system (as the one shown in Geoff's diagram. on a 14' boom. I have an old sail and it is used to be hand flaked in a certain way, so it does not come down into a nice flake (accordian-like - some parts of sail to fall off, I do have a bit of tidying to do at the dock to tie up my sail, but it's just a few minutes of work.

- The nylon cleats seemed like a good idea (no corrosion and low working load requirement), but the Dyneema does tend to slip around on it and just one cleat hitch doesn't really hold it tight. It's not a big deal, but I may think of using small clutches or something quicker than a cleat eventually.

- Mast pinging. When you retract the lazy jacks, the hardware (blocks or sliders) rest against the mast. Even though I have very lightweight nylon hardware, it will resonate with the wind and bang on the mast, disturbing your liveaboard neighbors. Again, not really a problem for most people who live in areas where the wind shuts off most nights.. I solved this with a few bungee chords with nylon clips that pull the lazy jack lines a few inches away from mast (and connect jack lines to shrouds with 1/4" bungee).

If you are interested in my system, I will take some photos next time I sail saturday. I had some one help me install the system - it's not a big deal though. If you are willing to climb your mast and tap a few holes for the pulleys and you can splice dyneema, it is a very simple setup. Knowing how to do it now, I would do it myself next time.

 

[1911tex]

Very interesting subject....I do not have lazy jacks and had thought hard about a commercial version. Now I like the idea of a retractable LJ system...keep this discussion ALIVE !

K2MSmith...bring on the photos and/or drawings!!

 

[Loren Beach]

Holt Low Friction Ring / High Load Eye | Bosun Bobs

Holt/Nautos Low Friction Ring Strong, safe, lightweight and high resistance. Originally developed for high – performance boats, their application has become frequent in all boats sizes. Made of hard anodized aluminium with a Teflon® finish .... £11.80.Worldwide shipping.

www.bosunbobs.com

Ours have rings like these, and I imagine that you could find a vendor closer. I have purchased from this one in the past. Very quick delivery.
Those low friction rings can be small for the modern hi-tech lines that lazy jacks use. I selected one off of their site, and there are others for sale.
Cost seemed low compared to small blocks, but budgets vary.

About having these 'jack lines' retract to the mast -- ours (part of the UK Lazy Cradle system) do this, and I believe that most others also do this - whether separate or part of a main sail split-cover scheme.

About rain, our cover came with a long tapered vinyl inner top piece that is laid on top of the flaked sail for the winters so that the small amount of rain that does go down thru the zipper will drain off and fall out of the bottom. Several grommets in the bottom layer allows any such water to escape.
Actually, thru the middle of the winter (when I used to go to the hassle of removing our main and taking it home, nowadays I just cover the newer "Lazy Cradle" with my old sunbrella cover and this keeps the new fancy one dry and mildew-free. (I got the idea from another sailor at our YC.) When doing this I lead the lazy-jack line up to the mast and tie them securely.
About the 'jacks' tapping on the mast: I seized a low-friction ring to the rear of each lower spreader and led the small line thru this on each side. Still vibrates a bit in high winds but little movement and no chafe.

Wish we could all get together, post Covid, and discuss our Jack Lines over a bottle of.... "Jack"....

 

[goldenstate]

Good talk. Design attached. Looking like a hundred dollar project, give or take.


Rope: 1/4" Regatta braid (single braid I know how to eye splice from my lifeline project) 20% overage for splicing and mis-measuring.
https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=3894109# 172 feet @ $0.42 per = $84

Nylon thimbles. Those $12 rings look cool, but these are $0.69 per and won't bear much weight or scratch up my mast.
https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=35360

Eye straps to connect to mast and spreaders. Little Harken 073's. I have some left over from elsewhere
Need to buy 2 more. $2 bucks each.

Cleats to secure line on mast:

Suncor Stainless Steel Flag Pole Cleat

The Flagpole Cleat is available in two sizes, 2-1/2" or 4-1/2" and is easily installed using #8 or #10 screws. This cleat is made from grade 304 stainless steel for maximum corrosion resistance and durability, which is perfect for outdoor environments. Fe

www.defender.com

Little stainless guys. They will work. Hope they don't get in the way.

I'll need to do some surgery on my sail cover when complete. If not now then when? If not I then whom?

Did I miss anything?

1/4" rope too narrow?

 

[Sailingfun]

I went back and forth on the lazy jack system so many times before I settled on my design and it is working great for me on my 33RH which has a 300 sq. ft main and a 14' boom.

Basically I opted for the simplest design. I have a similar layout to what Geoff W. posted in his diagram. We used 1/4" dyneema with a small pulley in each side of the mast (about 2/3 way up). Each side is separately retractable so that I can pull them to the mast (and along the bottom of the boom) and tie them off on a little 5" nylon cleat (1 on each side). The sail is then covered with a standard sail cover.

You have the choice of deploying your jacks at the dock before you sail or deploying later, in preparation for lowering the sail. There are advantages to each method. I kind of like to deploy them later because it makes for a really quick mainsail raise; you don't have to worry about battens getting caught on the jacks or sail alignment with midpoint of jacks.

After seeing the Vendee Globe race, where almost every boat had some sort of "stack pack" arrangement, I sort of regretted not going with a stack pack with integrated lazy jacks (and cover), but then a sailor next door to me in my slip warned me not to even consider a stack pack in our area as they get full of water when it rains. So, I am happy with my setup now

A things I've noticed since using them for several months (and others might want to comment).

- I choose a simple 3 leg system (as the one shown in Geoff's diagram. on a 14' boom. I have an old sail and it is used to be hand flaked in a certain way, so it does not come down into a nice flake (accordian-like - some parts of sail to fall off, I do have a bit of tidying to do at the dock to tie up my sail, but it's just a few minutes of work.

- The nylon cleats seemed like a good idea (no corrosion and low working load requirement), but the Dyneema does tend to slip around on it and just one cleat hitch doesn't really hold it tight. It's not a big deal, but I may think of using small clutches or something quicker than a cleat eventually.

- Mast pinging. When you retract the lazy jacks, the hardware (blocks or sliders) rest against the mast. Even though I have very lightweight nylon hardware, it will resonate with the wind and bang on the mast, disturbing your liveaboard neighbors. Again, not really a problem for most people who live in areas where the wind shuts off most nights.. I solved this with a few bungee chords with nylon clips that pull the lazy jack lines a few inches away from mast (and connect jack lines to shrouds with 1/4" bungee).

If you are interested in my system, I will take some photos next time I sail saturday. I had some one help me install the system - it's not a big deal though. If you are willing to climb your mast and tap a few holes for the pulleys and you can splice dyneema, it is a very simple setup. Knowing how to do it now, I would do it myself next time.

Waiting anxiously for your pictures!! It's February, time to go out our comfortable hibernation sofas and check the boat for this year's season...

 

[Sailingfun]

Goldenstate so basically... your high point for the blocks is at 3/4 high on the mast, right?
Thank you for the calculation!! I really need it!!
Keep going, boys!! I think there are a lot of people thinking do this project this season