Oily bilge

[Makar]

Hello,
I want to buy a boat from the broker. He doesn't know the boat history.
It has oily bilge and the boat is docked from Oct 2019 without electricity in the Seattle area.
What worse can cause the oil leak? Is it a bad idea to buy this surprise?

How properly I should pump the oily bilge, avoid the outboard spill?
I assume that the electrical pump is off. What will happen if I will run the motor or turn on electricity?

Thanks

 

[Loren Beach]

I would suggest a 5 gallon bucket and a portable pump. Depending on how much time one wants to invest, even a large 'turkey baster' would do.... once you dip out most of it with a cup. You do not want to get tagged for pumping oily waste OB.
Definitely find out the source. Engine or transmission... Or you might get lucky and find a stored-and-forgotten gallon of unused lube oil that sprung a leak. That's why I keep those sturdy new gallon jugs of Delo in a large plastic zip-lock bag just as a precaution.
Good luck, and keep us informed.
Is there an on-line link for the boat so that we may have a look?

 

[Tin Kicker]

First off is that you do NOT want to run the bilge pump, no matter what a broker might say! That will put the oil into the outside water which is a crime that everybody will see. And it makes bad juju between you, the marina, and everybody else.

That said, the oil came from somewhere and before buying you REALLY want to know the source. At the very least, have a surveyor help you.

As for how to clean an oily bilge IF you buy the boat, there are plenty of Youtube videos and threads with various methods.

 

[Christian Williams]

As Loren says, what's the broker link? Or at least what ERicson model is it?

Have you looked under the engine? That's the only place an oil leak matters--

 

[Makar]

It's Ericson 27 1978 with Kubota Beta Marine 14 engine. The image is below.
I didn't look under the engine because the first review did via a video call. Tomorrow, I will visit them and will do a survey by myself.
I prepared and bought the west marine hand pump, 5gal bucket, 1q of Delo 400 oil.

Is it normal to have so much water if the boat stays without electricity since the fall in the Seattle area?

 

[Christian Williams]

Shallow bilge, probably not that much water (or oil, either). If E27 has keel-stepped mast, rain water inevitable through openings on the spar.

That's a cool Beta diesel, a replacement engine? Original was probably gasoline Atomic Four.

Do discuss with the broker your intention with the bucket and pump and new oil....

 

[Makar]

Yes, they replaced the Atomic 4. It looks like Ericson E27 has a deck-stepped mast.
I will check tomorrow the mast and possible deck leaks.
Thank you, guys.

 

[bigd14]

The 27 has a deep keel sump that holds 3-4 gallons. So that would be a LOT of rainwater getting in the boat to fill the bilge that high since October. Could it be a fuel tank leaking diesel? In addition to the obvious locations (mast, portlights, thru-hulls and hoses, deck fittings, prop shaft seal, etc.) check the aft cockpit drain hose where it passes through the stern counter. There is sometimes a gap between the drain hose and the hull that can let a lot of water in. Very difficult to access this area, you may have to unscrew the panel at the aft end of the quarterberth and get in there with a flashlight and camera. Worth a look, though. Good luck and keep us posted on what you find.

 

[David Grimm]

Shop Vac. Looking at the pictures I would guess a diesel leak. Check the tank and fuel line. Should be a rubber fuel line NOT copper.

 

[nquigley]

Are you sure it's oil in the bilge? Could it be diesel from a leaking fuel tank? (ask me how I come to make this suggestion...)

 

[Loren Beach]

Are you sure it's oil in the bilge? Could it be diesel from a leaking fuel tank? (ask me how I come to make this suggestion...)

Good catch. I just figured that the OP would have called it diesel if it is... distinctive smell. But this is a situation where past experience is a key, and I have some.
Fuel line info is good to emphasize, too. Our '88 boat had a factory copper supply for the diesel engine and a reinforced 'rubber' return line. Over a decade ago I replaced both with new USCG-approved rubber (actually this modern hose is quite a hi-tech masterpiece of synthetic materials and fabric) . Same replacement schedule for the permeated fuel tank fill hose and the vent hose, also.

 

[toddster]

Photo in post #5 clearly seems to show water and oil in the engine bed? Neither should be there. Something's leaking. Putting a clean white shop towel (diaper) under there for an hour should help locate the source. Hopefully there is no water in the oil and vice verse! Also, is that a hard kink in the raw water line?

 

[Makar]

Fast question: All it’s perfect but in front is water. It’s without smell. Is it normal after rain season? They pumped bilge before me and looks ok.

 

[Makar]

The bow outside looks great too:

 

[toddster]

That is the forward-most locker in the V-berth, forward of the crash-bulkhead? No. Not normal. This boat has deck leaks. They aren't hard to fix (if you can find them.) But the deck core may be rotten around the leak.

My boat had that compartment full of water too, when I bought it, but it came in through a vent/hawse hole. This boat doesn't seem to have either. So I'd guess water leaks around some or all of those bolts when it rains.

 

[Makar]

Yes, there are few bolts. I don’t know if there is a rotten but when I walk on the bow deck then hear the creak sound. Is it the same? I tapped with hammer but not hear any hollows.

 

[toddster]

Quite likely. The deck is made of two thin layers of fiberglass with end-grain balsa wood in between them. If water gets in there for a long time then the wood rots. It can be fixed but it is a big job. There are moisture meters that can (sort of) measure how much water is in the deck at a given point.

 

[Makar]

Some local owners said that is delamination. I pumped around 15 gallons of water. It’s brown. I assume that it was collected years. If I will take care about it, should be water every time there?

 

[Afrakes]

If you're truly interested in this boat then get a surveyor to give you a hand. The boat is 42 years old and is going to have some issues. If you're dreaming of circumnavigating the world forget about this candidate. If on the other hand you're looking at a boat for recreational sailing then certain of the "old" conditions may not be that big of a deal. The deck fittings have probably not been re-bed, hence the leaks. I would anticipate moisture presence in the vulnerable portions of the deck around said fittings. Take into consideration how you're going use the boat and just what kind of trade offs you're willing to live with. When I sold my 73' 27 it also had many minor issues given its age. That boat continues to serve its present owners very well. That being said oil/diesel in the the bilge water is a big concern that deserves close attention. Good luck.

 

[bigd14]

https://www.plasticclassicforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=4431

Deck leaks are trouble and that seems like a lot of water in the boat. I am always suspicious of water in the bilge on a deck stepped boat, and I will stop at nothing to find out where it is coming from and stop it if I can. The Perko nav lights are probably one significant source.

If the foredeck is squeaky it likely has water in the core. All those fastener holes that probably were not bedded well and an aftermarket anchor roller, all in a high stress area. Repairs are time consuming (see link for details).

This boat worries me a bit with the fuel and all the water inside. I would consider it a good sized project and I sorely underestimated both the extent of damage and the time to fix what appear to be very similar issues in the same model. By all means get a survey (find a GOOD surveyor who will dig deep) and adjust your offer according to the repairs you plan on completing to make it right for you. Depending on your approach to life and intended use, you can either A). spend a few $ on the most critical repairs and go sailing almost immediately, B.) spend alot of $$$ and years fixing all the issues and then go sailing or C.) walk away and spend $$ on a boat that has been better maintained and go sailing and fix issues as needed.