Oil change on Universal M40 -- what am I doing wrong?

[c.gustafson]

Hello, Mates. This last weekend, I started the process of changing the oil on my Universal M40 ('87 Ericson 38-200). I have a Jabsco oil change pump that I use to remove the old oil by inserting the clear plastic tube down the opening where the oil dip stick goes. The problem I ran into is that I only got about 4-5 quarts of oil out of the oil pan. I initially inserted the plastic tube about the same length/depth as the oil dip stick -- and then when the oil stopped flowing, I tried a little deeper but didn't seem to result in more oil being sucked out. When I put the oil dip stick back in, the dipstick shows that there is still oil. Any words of wisdom on what I'm doing wrong? Must be something simple that I'm missing. As always, many thanks for your assistance.

 

[Loren Beach]

What is the oil capacity of your engine model? My (former) 1988 Universal M25XP (four quarts of oil) already had the optional banjo fitting installed on the oil pan drain with the hose led up beside the engine, when we bought our boat. That made it pretty easy to put the suction tube down to the bottom to vacuum all the oil out. Something to look into, perhaps?

 

[c.gustafson]

Thanks, Loren. The service manual says oil capacity in the Universal M40 is 8.0 -- 8.5 quarts. I'll double check to see whether there is a drain hose on the oil pan, but I didn't see it this past weekend.

 

[Bob Robertson]

I've got a 1988 38=200 just like yours. There is a separate oil drain hose that connects to the oil pan and runs up the left side of the engine / the opposite side of the engine from the dip stick. I have fittings that I can screw into the top of the drain hose and then use my oil change pump extractor to pump the oil out of the engine.
8.5 quarts is the correct number.

 

[Christian Williams]

I can get about 95 percent of the oil out of mine using the dipstick port. The oil has to be warm/hot. I use the popular "vacuum" extractor from HF or WM, which works better than the Jabsco hand pump I used to have.

 

[mrojec]

Hi CG,
Did you ever get your oil changed? I’m preparing to change the oil in the universal 5432 I’m working on and may have the same problem. It takes 11.5 qts and only a small tube will fit down the dipstick. Also, the boat is on a cradle so I’ll need to run the engine with the raw water pump impeller removed to warm up the oil. Makes me nervous….
Mark

 

[Chschaus]

Hi CG,
Did you ever get your oil changed? I’m preparing to change the oil in the universal 5432 I’m working on and may have the same problem. It takes 11.5 qts and only a small tube will fit down the dipstick. Also, the boat is on a cradle so I’ll need to run the engine with the raw water pump impeller removed to warm up the oil. Makes me nervous….
Mark

I also have the Universal 5432, I use a homemade version of the Jabsco oil change system. Putting the line down the dipstick tube, I can get about 10 of the 11.5 quarts out. not including what is in the filter. I can't speak to running without the fresh water impeller as I have never done that.
The only time I ran the engine while on the hard Tran a hose to the intake.

 

[Chschaus]

I also have the Universal 5432, I use a homemade version of the Jabsco oil change system. Putting the line down the dipstick tube, I can get about 10 of the 11.5 quarts out. not including what is in the filter. I can't speak to running without the fresh water impeller as I have never done that.
The only time I ran the engine while on the hard Tran a hose to the intake.

* I ran a hose to the intake

 

[Loren Beach]

FWIW, I have found that the modern multigrade engine lube oil is quite "thin" enough to pour and remove easily, at most any ambient temperature. Perhaps the old advice (which was drummed into me, also, many decades ago) was important for the simpler refined-oil products of an earlier era?
I do still warm up the engine for 15 minutes - until the temp gauge has risen noticeably - and then change the oil. Old habit.
No harm in circulating the lube oil and warming it some. I find the idea of deliberatingly running an engine without the heat exchanger a lot more concerning... after all, combining water with exhaust in the exhaust system is required to keep from melting holes in the water lift muffler.

Also, in the real world, when we take our vehicle in for a time-specified arrival at the dealer for its oil change... they park it and then move it into the shop, maybe... ten minutes or 40 minutes later, after it has again cooled down a lot. They get to it as fast as they can, but it may be parked outside on a 35 degree day for quite a while.

This whole question may have a more nuanced answer in this era, than it did back in the 50's/60's. Perhaps.

 

[Christian Williams]

I initially inserted the plastic tube about the same length/depth as the oil dip stick

As I recall, the dipstick tube for my extractor is pretty long, and I have to work it deep into the engine. Maybe your hand pump doesn't have enough tube. The oil pan is relative deep.

 

[David Grimm]

I have the same M40 in my 38-200. I use the West Marine unit.

Professional 12V Oil Changer Flat Tank | West Marine

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Run engine to warm up oil. Locate the hose that comes off the bottom of the oil pan. Remove the 1/4 inch square nut. Insert the skinny oil pump line into hose till it stops. Turn on pump and eat a sandwich. Remove oil filter and install new. I use a Wix 51068. Add 8 qts of 15-40 and a small bottle of STP zink additive. (Zink was present in oils when this engine was designed.)

Advance Auto Parts - Down for Maintenance

The move on to the Hurth 100. .33qt ATF remove dipstic 17mm. Insert tube to bottom of trans. Check without threding dipstick in.

 

[Kenneth K]

I’ll need to run the engine with the raw water pump impeller removed to warm up the oil. Makes me nervous….

The raw water cooling system isn't doing anything until the thermostat opens (165-180 deg). First, it's just the internal antifreeze trapped in the block that absorbs heat. Then, the thermostat opens and additional cooling is provided by the "cool" antifreeze in the rest of fresh-water system. Only after all of this reaches 180 degrees is the lack of raw water a problem. Keep an eye on your temp gauge and you should be fine.

 

[David Grimm]

The raw water cooling system isn't doing anything until the thermostat opens (165-180 deg). First, it's just the internal antifreeze trapped in the block that absorbs heat. Then, the thermostat opens and additional cooling is provided by the "cool" antifreeze in the rest of fresh-water system. Only after all of this reaches 180 degrees is the lack of raw water a problem. Keep an eye on your temp gauge and you should be fine.

Will the rubber exhaust hose be ok without raw water flowing through?

 

[Loren Beach]

Will the rubber exhaust hose be ok without raw water flowing through?

No! One 'net source puts the temp at over 400 F degrees. Others show it as quite a bit higher.

 

[David Grimm]

No! One 'net source puts the temp at over 400 F degrees. Others show it as quite a bit higher.

Yea, I didn't think so.

 

[Kenneth K]

No! One 'net source puts the temp at over 400 F degrees. Others show it as quite a bit higher.

Yeah, great point. I should have spent more time thinking about what happens in the back half of the system.

 

[c.gustafson]

Hi CG,
Did you ever get your oil changed? I’m preparing to change the oil in the universal 5432 I’m working on and may have the same problem. It takes 11.5 qts and only a small tube will fit down the dipstick. Also, the boat is on a cradle so I’ll need to run the engine with the raw water pump impeller removed to warm up the oil. Makes me nervous….
Mark

Yes, I got the oil changed. I did two things differently. First, I let the engine warm up more and thus the oil was warmer and running more fluidly. And second, I realized that I needed to be more patient. I could get about 4 quarts of oil removed relatively easily. Then I waited for about 15 minutes and removed a couple more quarts --- and then waited another 15 minutes and then removed a couple more quarts. All's well that ends well.

 

[Kenneth K]

Yea, I didn't think so.

I guess that's one of the problems with free advice dispensed by amateur well-wishers with no skin in the game.

"The good news, sir, is your engine is just fine. The bad news is I fried your exhaust system."

 

[G Kiba]

Yes, I got the oil changed. I did two things differently. First, I let the engine warm up more and thus the oil was warmer and running more fluidly. And second, I realized that I needed to be more patient. I could get about 4 quarts of oil removed relatively easily. Then I waited for about 15 minutes and removed a couple more quarts --- and then waited another 15 minutes and then removed a couple more quarts. All's well that ends well.

Makes sense. Just like changing the oil in a car. It takes time for the oil to return to the pan to be drained. The filter will also have oil in it if you are tracking the volume closely.

 

[mrojec]

Glad you had success with the oil change! Did you run any tubing down the dipstick tube? If so, what did you use? The vinyl tubing I have just curls up above the level of the oil