Need help with Asbestos concern on 1976 Ericson 29

[duncan59]

Hello brothers and sisters united in Erison loyalty. I recently bought a 1976 Ericson 29' that showed an asbestos heat wrapping around the engine exhaust system pipes.

Now I believe this is the original heat wrapping, and the owner himself said it included asbestos (the surveyor missed it) and shouldnt be replaced as it was probably better quality than any replacement. However.... I am naturally not overly happy with an asbestos heat insulation component and wish to remove and replace it correctly. Any and all advice would be most welcome.

Please let me know what any of you know about original asbestos or asbestos-containing components on 1970s Ericson yachts, and sensible removal thereof. I am not a wealthy yacht owner, just a passionate one, so I have to find the DIY route if at all possible.

Many thanks

Duncan, Santa Barbara
(yacht in Channel Islands harbor)

 

[BrianP]

I have a friend in VT and asked him about it he works for catamount industries haz waste etc.. he said if it is not falling apart there are special heat proof type wrap to seal it. He said to properly remove it the boat would have to be tented etc... I would suggest not disturbing it and get further counsel on this in your area.

 

[duncan59]

heat proof type wrap for asbestos?

I would love to know about any heat-proof type wrap for my asbestos exhaust heat-wrap. This would be the best possible solution, as long as it seals it all in, and I don't have to worry about it anymore.

The asbestos is definitely not falling apart, it looks pretty sturdy and new actually. Can you get me some names of products? Naturally, I stay away from it and don't breathe much with the engine cover off.

I can't afford the full-scale tenting and professional hazard waste removal scenario. If the worst comes to the worst, I will have to wear a safety mask and suit, strip out all the boat completely from carpets and cushions and fabrics, wrap the asbestos in a strong clear plastic bag, taped at both ends, put my gloved hand in through a hole, (taped around the arm of my hazmat type suit), cut the stuff along the length of the pipe, wrap up the bag in another couple of bags and bag all that. THEN, I will have to wipe up every inch of glass and wood in the boat and vacuum the whole thing, including the horribly difficult spots like the lazarettes where I think the exhaust pipe runs to the transom. It will be hot and exhausting, not to mention stressful, for about 24 hours. I have A.D.D., so the organization will be hard to manage efficiently.

I really hope you have another idea for me!

Thanks for your quick response,

Duncan.

PS: I come from Norwich, Norfolk, England, the original home of Boudica, the queen of the Icene, a tribe originated from Celts, Scandinavians and early Britons from Albion (england). Boudica and her followers resisted the Roman invasion, successfully at first! So I like to think I have an early connection to the Ericson and the Vikings! Norfolk later got its name from the invading Norman conquest (Danes and Scandinavians who passed through Normandy in France). In fact "Albion" was invaded about four times by Danes and other Scands... by the Engles who named us England, by the Saxons (that's how we became known as the Anglo-Saxons), by the Vikings and by the Normans. So I have surrendered to the northern might and bought myself an Ericson 29'. HAIL! My boat is being named "Boadicea" (Boudica).

 

[BrianP]

Duncan,
I'll try to call Bart or Greg and get more info for you on this and different products you can use.

 

[NateHanson]

The most important thing I know about asbestos removal is to keep everything damp with a misting bottle of water, and use a HEPA filter vacuum for cleanup. If you keep it damp, there's not a lot that can get into the air. And it's only dangerous when it's in the air.

 

[duncan59]

Asbestos protection

Thanks guys, any and all information is really useful.
Duncan
(Ericson lover since December 2006, owner since Jan 20).

 

[Emerald]

Hi,

you might want to check out some of these items:

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_744845_-1_10261

In case the above link breaks, you are looking for header wrap on www.jegs.com
.

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

Are you sure its Asbestos?

Just a silly question but how do you know it is asbestos? Just because the PO said so would not be good enough for me. I would try to find out for sure by someone who would know. I have never heard of these things being asbestos and would be surprised if it really was. I could be totally wrong here too.

 

[duncan59]

Thanks Ted — it may not be asbestos

But how do you really know? Where would I go for this sort of info. Is there an Atomic Four site? Would the original Ericson manufacturers know? Are they contactable? Or should I clip a bit off and take it the government?
Any thoughts?
— Duncan

 

[BrianP]

Tried to reach my connections today but both were out. I would see if it actually is asbestos, I was at the marina today and asked an old salt about it he said that he has never seen it on the aplication you described he did say that someone could have used the automotive heat wrap stuff though that can be picked up at any parts store.

 

[NateHanson]

But how do you really know? Where would I go for this sort of info. Is there an Atomic Four site? Would the original Ericson manufacturers know? Are they contactable? Or should I clip a bit off and take it the government?
Any thoughts?
— Duncan

I think you're overcomplicating this. Just call up an environmental services company and talk to them about it. Send them a picture if necessary. Or simply an oral description might suffice. A pro with experience will be familiar with the applications and forms that asbestos is found in. I'm sure they can tell you whether you have a problem, and likely they might advise you of what to do.

I found that the company local to me was very helpful in this regard when a tenant of mine thought that she spotted asbestos pipe insulation in one closet of her apartment. The asbestos contractor was very helpful in advising me on how to take care of it and what to look out for.

I too am skeptical that this is asbestos, because I've never heard of it in this application, but that's no reason to conclude that your boat isn't different. Do you have a picture of your riser?

 

[Chad and Sandy]

Another simple solution

Hi Duncan,

If you find out that it is indeed asbestos, why not just replace the exhaust system that has asbestos on it. Just unbolt it, bag it, and give it to the abatement company that told you it was asbestos. It might be expensive to do but I'll wager that it would be cheaper than tenting your boat ect., ect. Just a simple idea.

Chad

 

[rwthomas1]

This asbestos fear is really overblown. Being a contractor I see it every once in a while. Its not poison. The only way it will harm you is if you breathe it. So as long as its not flaking off, crumbling, becoming dusty, etc. there is no real threat.

If you must deal with it then spray it down to keep the dusk minimized. Actually if its kept wet and any dripping water is contained in a trash bag and its all sealed when you are done then thats plenty. A good respirator is recommended when working with it if its in any state where it will become airborne.

The correct way to deal with it is a licensed contractor shows up with white suits, breathing apparatus, special vacuums, etc. then they double or triple bag it and it ends up in the landfill after all the red tape. Since it ends up in the landfill anyway you can pretty much everyone I know just bags it and takes it there anyway. If it was mine and I wanted it gone thats what I would do.

RT

 

[gareth harris]

I had the same concern about my insulation, but the general advice was that asbestos was not used in sailboats in the 70s. However, since it looked a lot like other asbestos I had seen, and it was falling apart, and I had to replace the exhaust anyway, I removed the whole shebang using a mask and protective clothing. I also removed the cabin cushions and wet everything down, then cleaning everything thoroughly once it was gone. It was all done in a day, apart from the arguments with hazardous waste disposal (after talking to them, I suspect it all got thrown in the skip).

That is a very good name for your boat. I read somewhere recently that there is a lot of DNA research going on to determine the extent of Norse vs Germanic vs Basque/Celtic heritage around the British Isles, but nobody is yet sure how extensive the different groups were. If you are familiar with Worm's Head in Wales, that was named by Vikings, after the Old Norse 'Wurm' which means dragon. They never settled there, but I guess I may have some Viking blood from a pillaging expedition.

 

[Brisdon]

Yeap, that's asbestos. The wrap around the old hose for the alcohol stove is also asbestos. It's not that dangerous to take it out wet and mist the air so that anything falls out and doesn't get pulled into the high quality dust mask that you are wearing. The EPA goes crazy about asbestos including it's final resting place. I wouldn't send them a postcard about the job. I'd just wrap it up and put it in the dumpster.

 

[duncan59]

Asbestos update

One thing that makes me think that it might be asbestos, or partially asbestos, is that it is like a woven cloth around the pipe, a sort of grey-ish white color (basically the color of a spool of string). That woven-cloth is the look of asbestos type stuff, isn't it?

Thanks for all the replies so far you guys. It was great to log-in this morning and see that so many more people have shared their advice in the past few days. I am soaking it all up and trying to figure out what to do.

Duncan

 

[rgoff]

The new wrapping used today (fiberglass, I think) is also woven. It starts off white and changes colors from the heat.

I replaced my factory wrapping on my '73 E27 maybe 20 years ago. Don't remember what it looked like. Took some precautions, but didn't get paranoid over it. I'm still around and my breathing is fine.

IMHO, I think people that end up with lung problems from asbestos work around it for years. Also a lot of this hysteria over hazardous waste is a bunch of bunk and just creates more government employees and raises prices.

 

[chaco]

Exhaust Pipe Wrap

Remove all the cushions and anything that can absorb dust. Wrap inside of
cabin with plastic barrier. Use throw away painters outfit w/hood. Wear nitril
gloves tapped to your rists. Cover shoes in plastic and tape to ankles.
Wear a resperator. Now your an asbestos abatement worker.
The point is to not expose yourself and DISPOSE OF anything you wear.
Mist down the pipe wrap and CAREFULLY remove without disturbing fibers.
Double contain in ziploc bag. Dispose of everything with an Abatement
Company. Follow any procedures they give you
Completely vacuum your entire cabin and dispose of paper filter.
Now....wrap the exhaust pipe with 2"x 1/8" fiberglass tape with 1" overlap.
The tape is held in place with hose clamps. Wear nitril gloves when you work
with fiberglass tape (very friable) :nerd: Available at Marine Suppliers
Do not leave this exhaust wrap in your boat or try to cover it up

Good Luck

 

[Ray Rhode]

Ralph,

Agree with your humble opinion. My 87 year old father worked in an asbestos plant as a young man and told me that the dust was so bad that the paper masks they had would clog up after an hour so no one bothered with them. My uncle, also in his 80s, lived across the street from the plant and every morning they had to sweep the dust off of the front porch and their car. Neither have any lung problems.

I think they exposed laboratory rats to clouds of asbestos and they developed cancer. Actually I think that laboratories cause cancer in rats.

Ray Rhode
S/V Journey
E35-III, #189

 

[Brisdon]

The problem with asbestos is that the fibers are shaped like fish hooks and they stay in the lungs permenantly. One doesn't want to breath them, but on the other hand, I don't think you need to treat it like you are cleaning up after Chernobyl.