Mainsail Reefing Dilema

[Gregoryulrich]

Mainsail Reefing Dilemma

Apologies for the sideways pic. I have no reefing system on my main sail which presented a problem a couple weekends back when the wind piped up to sustained 20 knots off Catalina. The main problem I see is that the feeding slot for the slugs is really high up off the boom and there are two slugs which will hit the sail stop if I try to get the luff cringle on the boom. I guess I can take the sail stop out every time it anticipate a reef but that seems like a PITA. Anyone have any suggestions on how I can overcome this?

 

[tcooper]

Look at the website mastgate.com, I have the same problem, I'm going to go a different route but this looked like a good solution.

Tom
36 Rh

 

[Walter Pearson]

Past threads (lost?) dealt with several methods to attack this definite PITA. I think the best solution is to cover that luff slot with plates that allow smooth sliding of the slugs. They allow the sail to be flaked right down on the boom and that system made all the operations of mainsail much more convenient for me. I made my own plates, but from the website suggested, you should be able to purchase what you need. I can't even imagine sailing without reefing, but evidently it's done. With a proper topping lift - and subsequently a rigid vang - I could hove-to and put in or take out a reef in a relatively steady condition in a minute or two. I think the easier it is, the more it's done, and the safer you are when the boat is not overpowered. (By proper topping lift, I refer to something that will support the boom at any swing position and not the short lanyard that is often attached to the backstay.)

 

[Gregoryulrich]

Walter thank you so much. I was thinking plates but I've heard aluminum is difficult to weld. I'm assuming these plates are riveted in and a lower opening routed out.

 

[Afrakes]

Plates

The plates on my 73' E-27 are fastened with Phillips head machine screws. They are removed to install the sail and then refastened when the sail is in place. The sail stop is used to hold the sail above the slots until the plates are fastened. Sail stop is then dropped down to the bottom of the mast just above where my boom vang is mounted. Al Frakes Port Kent, NY

 

[Walter Pearson]

I think you still want something that can be mounted to cover the opening, but yet removable. My plates were fastened with three screws on each side and the plates were slotted so the fasteners did not have to be completely removed from the mast. They were made of stainless materials. I usually only took them off for removing the sail for the winter and putting them back on in the spring.

This view is from the back side of the plates. The stainless rods that provide smooth transition from the mast extrusion are silver-brazed to the plates which are shaped to match the mast curvature at the luff groove.

 

[Gregoryulrich]

Gentlemen, thank you. @Tcooper can I ask how you plan to proceed? Al Frakes did you have yours fabricated or buy over the counter? The plates sound like a great solution but I'd like to have all my options in front of me before I drill holes in my mast.

 

[Gregoryulrich]

@Walter how did you rig your topping lift?

 

[Guy Stevens]

or you could leave the stack on the mast, and add "dog bones"

You do need a set of or at least one plate to keep the sail in the luff grove when reefing. Generally a simple piece of aluminum bent to the shape of the mast and secured with 1 or 2 machine screws, and a touch of filing on the opening in the mast track will accomplish this.

After that I would add "dog bones" or reefing strops to your sail.


Two stainless steel rings, connected by a piece of sewn webbing (Dacron Preferred), which will allow the ring on either side, (not both rings at once), to connect all the way down to just barely hook on the rams horns. Of course, the sail should be made correctly, so that there is enough room in the sail between the slides, so that the sail comes almost all the way down to the rams horn itself. If not you may have to remove a slide from immediately above the reef cringle. However if you do, have to remove one the sail wasn't correctly measured or made for the boat.

Advantages:
Much easier to reef.
Cheaper and easier than trying to fabricate mast gates
Easier to unreef , you don't have to put all the sail slides back in just hoist away.
The sail is contained while reefed on the mast
Cost 2@<4.00 for the rings + a few small bits of webbing for connecting them between the reef cringles.

Disadvantages:
The very forward sail shape can be influenced on one tack by the flaked sail still on the mast if the stack height is very high, as with harken batcars or the like.



Thanks,
Guy

 

[Gregoryulrich]

Thank you Guy, that all makes sense to me. I do have cringles but I don't have ram's horns on my goose neck (it's starting to sound like the Ark with all these animals on board!).

My my plan was a single reefing line, say, secured to the aft starboard end of the boom, run up and over to the port side through the leech cringle. Then through a block up to the forward end, through another block to go up and over back to the starboard side. The reefing line would be secured around a cleat of through a cam cleat. My old MacGregor Venture had a similar set up although all lines ran to the cockpit. My main halyard is up on the mast so it makes sense to do it that way.

 

[Afrakes]

Plates

The boat is all wrapped up for the winter so I can't show you a photo. The previous owner fabricated these out of aluminum flat stock using a vise, hack saw and an angle grinder. Pretty simple and clean. My 27 is just under contract with sale to be completed after sea trial in the spring. Al Frakes, Port Kent, NY

 

[sailingjazz]

Mainsail Reefing

Not sure this diagram makes it clear, but on my boat the bottom of the sail has the slugs on rope threaded through cringles. It works really well. Not sure how it would work on your setup.


Cheers
Kevin

 

[Gregoryulrich]

Thanks for the diagram Kevin but I can't reall tell what's going on in there. Tom Luque from mastgates.com has been really helpful. Ive ordered a set of fixed gates and will report back after the whole reefing system has been set up and tested. Thanks again.

 

[Loren Beach]

Another good diagram in reply 6 in this other thread.
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/seamanship-navigation/73598-loose-luff-main-sail-questions.html

Our main does not have this feature, but it really should...
Unscrewing the slug stop when reefing is a PITA.


Loren

 

[sailingjazz]

Mainsail Reefing

The bottom line is that the bottom three slugs, instead of being directly attached to the sail, are attached to a line threaded through cringles at the tack of the sail. This lets the tack fall below the bottom of the sail track or the sail track gate. May a bit confusing but works very well for reefing and avoids the need to take the bottom slugs out of the sail track. The diagram is from my Ericson manual.

Cheers
Kevin

 

[Seth]

Reefing

Thanks for the diagram Kevin but I can't reall tell what's going on in there. Tom Luque from mastgates.com has been really helpful. Ive ordered a set of fixed gates and will report back after the whole reefing system has been set up and tested. Thanks again.

Greg,

Take a look at some of the reefing threads here. How you run the clew reef is very important and I want to be sure you are clear on what works and what does not. Guy, myself and others have posted a lot of material on how best to do this. I may have misread your intentions, but if you take the reef line from the end of the boom directly up to the clew reef cringle, the best thing is come straight down and loop/secure the end of the reef line around the boom, leaving a little room so this loop can slide fore and aft a few inches. If you have foot slides on the sail you should be able to get the reef line between the set of slides under the reef point. If you have a foot rope the best thing is to cut a 6" slot in the foot of the sail (or have a sailmaker do it for you). The idea is not to locate any track or blocks at the back end of the boom, as these are rarely in the right spot. The loop method ensures the reef line gets properly tensioned and the angle self adjusts.

The reef line will exit at the front of the boom and you can lead it wherever convenient....

 

[Gregoryulrich]

Thank you for that information Seth. I'll do more investigation before I move forward. I think we may be saying the same thing but let me clarify my intentions.

My plan was to locate a padeye to secure the reefing line on the starboard side of the boom a little aft, maybe 2 or 3 inches, of where the clew reef cringle would set on the boom and put a cheek block on the port side directly opposite the padeye. This would put downward as well as rearward tension on the clew, important for taking the bag out of the sail.

From there another cheek block near the gooseneck on the port, another cheekblock on the starboard then a cleat. I did a little digging and found this image. The setup I'm talking about is identical to this photo but the line terminates on the boom instead of at the cockpit. It seems like having the aft cheek block on a track would make sense. I've seen and used this set up on a few boats including the Spindrift 43 I used to sail on. That one was large enough to require a winch on the boom.

 

[Gregoryulrich]

Aha.

More digging yielded this post:

and this helpful video.

I like the single reefing line set up because I sail alone or with inexperienced crew a lot and this setup would allow me to do everything I need at the mast without going back and forth. It seems like the setup above would require me to get up to the mast, drop the main, secure the tack reef cringle, go back to the cockpit and secure the clew reef cringle, then go back up to the mast to tension the main halyard. Am I getting this right? Why is this a better setup?

 

[Seth]

not a fan

More digging yielded this post:

and this helpful video.

I like the single reefing line set up because I sail alone or with inexperienced crew a lot and this setup would allow me to do everything I need at the mast without going back and forth. It seems like the setup above would require me to get up to the mast, drop the main, secure the tack reef cringle, go back to the cockpit and secure the clew reef cringle, then go back up to the mast to tension the main halyard. Am I getting this right? Why is this a better setup?

Single line reefing systems are generally high friction and create HGE amounts of extra line floating around the cockpit. I am not a fan of this system- they never work as well as advertised and you rarely see this setup on offshore cruising boats (people who reef and unreef a lot).

Just my 2 cents

 

[Gregoryulrich]

Single line reefing systems are generally high friction and create HGE amounts of extra line floating around the cockpit. I am not a fan of this system- they never work as well as advertised and you rarely see this setup on offshore cruising boats (people who reef and unreef a lot).

Just my 2 cents

Makes total sense and it seems like it would cost less and be a simpler system.