Mainsail Reefing Dilema

[G Kiba]

There is a lot of friction if you pass the line trough the reefing eye as shown in the diagram!
If you replace this with small (carbo) blocks attached with line or a soft shackle the friction goes away. I have used this on my E27 for the last 5 years and can reef and un-reef from the cockpit in minutes with no help. I got the idea from a 32' Beneteau in the marina. A friend did this with his 30' Newport with the same success. When putting in a reef, the real trick is letting off both vang and main enough so the reef at the boom end is just as tight as the front. Oh, always reef or un-reef going upwind on the same tack - the reefed sail cloth always falls on the same side.

 

[toddster]

I must be dense because I can't see how a single-line system would have less excess line. Although I can see where friction would build up.
I've been running a prototype double-line system, based on my best interpretation of the PO's hardware installation. The rear line ends at a cleat where the diagram above shows a forward cheek block. So there is extra line at the end for the cleat and a purchase. The front line ends at a cleat on the mast. So far, it is kind of a nightmare of excess line flailing around everywhere. :rolleyes_d:

 

[G Kiba]

I have two reefs - both using a single line. Not a lot of excess. Most when the second reef is in. I have rope clutches for these on the port side of the cabin top. All excess line goes down the companion way and usually into the sink. Not a big problem.

 

[Guy Stevens]

Single line reefing ...Ugghhh

The single line reefing always looks great on paper, but it never works right in practice.

I have played with a lot of systems on boats that were reported to have great single line reefing. None of them even worked, let alone worked well..

In your photo the block on the forward end of the boom attempts to pull the forward reef cringle of the sail aft as much as it will attempt to pull it down. That is a huge stress increase, huge increase in friction everywhere, and a good way to break things. Even if you have a boom designed for single line reefing, with sheaves that come out the top of the boom to the reef cringles, then back down to a turning block on the deck, with or without blocks installed in the reef cringles, it doesn't work well. Also the amount of chafe present in the system as you have it drawn is going to make short work out of those reefing lines.

It takes me less time to reef the 46 foot boat that I am on than it does to tell you how to do it if you are standing next to me. Standard old fashion slab reefing with what the now call dog bones, reef rings etc. The Lazy Jacks help a lot, as does a rope clutch on the main halyard.

I can have the boat reefed before most people realize that I am doing it. Release main sheet, Autopilot on, (or ask a handy novice to steer for a minute and to try to hold a course), walk forward, deploy lazy jacks if they are not up, slack main sail halyard to point marked on main halyard at top of the rope clutch, reengage clutch, hook ring on rams horn, tighten reefing line, tension halyard so mark on halyard is below clutch, walk back to cockpit, tighten main sheet.


The amount time that you are going to spend away from the cockpit trying to sort out the mess that results from single line reefing is going to far exceed the amount of time that you would actually spend reefing.

Why have another line that goes through the forward cringle? Install a set of rams horns. There is only one line the reefing line, lead it to a winch on the boom that tightens the reefing line through a cheek block on the aft end of the boom through the sail and back to the boom. A lot less line to stretch back and forth a lot less friction, and one heck of a lot easier to raise the sail.

Reefing dead down wind is a little harder as I have to pull the sail down a bit in the process, but nothing that is difficult, even with a boom that is about 5 feet off the deck at that point.

Guy

 

[Second Star]

Main Sail Reefing

The reefed tack on my boat fits over the rams horn fitting on the boom only if the lower two luff "slugs" are taken out of the track. The "removable track stop" is fitted about 2" above the start of the transition of the track from the open part to the closed part which is about 18" above the rams horn. There would be no way to get the reef tack to fit over the horn with the lower two slugs piled up at the bottom of the track even if the special "cheeks" noted above were fitted. If I feel that I might have to reef at some point in the day I remove the lower 2 slugs from the track and put up with a bit of slack at the tack when under full sail.

 

[G Kiba]

Sorry Guy. My system works great for me.
I will try to Go/Pro myself putting in a reef when the season returns in the Spring (Hoping for one this Xmas). Never timed myself but I believe it is under 3 minutes without a trip forward and without an Autopilot.

 

[Guy Stevens]

The reefed tack on my boat fits over the rams horn fitting on the boom only if the lower two luff "slugs" are taken out of the track. The "removable track stop" is fitted about 2" above the start of the transition of the track from the open part to the closed part which is about 18" above the rams horn. There would be no way to get the reef tack to fit over the horn with the lower two slugs piled up at the bottom of the track even if the special "cheeks" noted above were fitted. If I feel that I might have to reef at some point in the day I remove the lower 2 slugs from the track and put up with a bit of slack at the tack when under full sail.

Right your sail slides are applied wrong to the sail. You can either have a sailmaker alter the location of the sail slides so that the cringles with dog bones can easily reach the rams horns or add a line that goes through the slides like is very well drawn earlier in the thread. The problem isn't the reefing system it is that the sail was not correctly designed to reef...

When you reef you change where the foot of the sail is. Instead of it being where the foot is when the sail is at full hoist, you now make it some distance up the sail.

However you want the forces on the NEW foot of the sail to be attached in the same places and with the same vectors as the old foot was.

If your reef starts 18" up the mast what is supporting the aft pull of the the new clew (The aft reef cringle has to be pulled aft to keep the sail flat, which is what the outhaul does on the fully hoisted main)? Having that force pull against a sail slide, or a bullseye attached to the side of the mast is not a fair lead. You will get a lot of friction, and the sail shape will be worse, just when you really need it to get better. That is it will be baggy when you need it to be flat, and keeping halyard tension is going to be close to impossible in a blow.


Removing sail slides in a reefing situation is a mess, even more so when you have to put them back on when you need to shake out the reef. With a few simple mods you can make it much easier. There is no reason to have the mast track gate 18" above the gooseneck, that is strange to start with. Even stranger is that it was not fitted with a method to close the gate and let the slides down to just above the rams horns. Then the sail maker didn't measure at all for your stack height before attaching the sail slides. Stack height is one of the key measurements to be able to reef a sail correctly.
Guy

 

[Guy Stevens]

Don't be sorry

Sorry Guy. My system works great for me.
I will try to Go/Pro myself putting in a reef when the season returns in the Spring (Hoping for one this Xmas). Never timed myself but I believe it is under 3 minutes without a trip forward and without an Autopilot.

Don't be sorry, come sailing on Aiki in the spring and see how easy it is to reef my mainsail.. You bring the wine for after the sail. Then you can compare the ideas.


The go pro is a blast. You will find a lot of uses for it that you never imagined! (I recommend that all of my clients use it when they decide to do their own winch maintenance.





Guy

 

[Gregoryulrich]

Now that I recall the single line reefing on the Spindrift 43 was a little but of a mess going head to wind with the mainsail flogging. That line would always twist with the second reefing line or get wrapped on something during the process. On my Mac 25 it was super easy and super quick to do everything from the cockpit with the single line. Then again there's a lot less line to begin with than a 40+ footer.

 

[Mark F]

I have to second Grant's experience with a single line reefing system on an E27. I singlehand a lot and reef a lot, it works great!

 

[Christian Williams]

I can have the boat reefed before most people realize that I am doing it. Release main sheet, Autopilot on, (or ask a handy novice to steer for a minute and to try to hold a course), walk forward, deploy lazy jacks if they are not up, slack main sail halyard to point marked on main halyard at top of the rope clutch, reengage clutch, hook ring on rams horn, tighten reefing line, tension halyard so mark on halyard is below clutch, walk back to cockpit, tighten main sheet.

Guy, you have a main halyard winch on the mast and a reef outhaul winch on the boom?

 

[Alan Gomes]

Helpful article by Pineapple Sails

Here's a link to a very informative article by Pineapple Sails on setting up a reefing system, with the pros and cons of different types: http://www.pineapplesails.com/articles/reefing.htm

 

[Guy Stevens]

[/I]Guy, you have a main halyard winch on the mast and a reef outhaul winch on the boom?

Yes to both. On the e-39, there was a winch on the side of the boom and 3 rope clutches, conservatively I probably reefed that boat over 500 times if I had to guess.

I always have my main Halyard "on the Mast". It is a little different on on the 46 as both the halyard winch and the reef winches (Yes there are two of them), are located on the deck at the base of the mast. The process is the same on both boats. Where exactly your hands are when you are doing it is slightly different.

I have also installed the same system on more boats than I can count. Last week on a Falmouth cutter, the week before that on a Cal 39, Freya 39, etc....

I will put the go pro on and do the whole thing here on the Cal 39 if we ever get wind again... Sigh.....

Guy

 

[toddster]

Agreed. Once the autopilot is functioning, keeping everything up at the mast is much more convenient. But... I can't figure out what all the stuff the PO screwed to the boom was doing.

 

[G Kiba]

Guy,
I would love to take a sail on Aiki. Beautiful boat in your pictures. I'm sure it much nicer in person with the rail in the water. - Name your time, place, and wine.

Mark, Thanks for chimming in! These non-believers are starting to get to me.

Greg, Yes. The second or first reef lines will twist if you don't have the blocks secured in a manner that won't allow them to spin.

 

[Seth]

I can have the boat reefed before most people realize that I am doing it. Release main sheet, Autopilot on, (or ask a handy novice to steer for a minute and to try to hold a course), walk forward, deploy lazy jacks if they are not up, slack main sail halyard to point marked on main halyard at top of the rope clutch, reengage clutch, hook ring on rams horn, tighten reefing line, tension halyard so mark on halyard is below clutch, walk back to cockpit, tighten main sheet.

Guy, you have a main halyard winch on the mast and a reef outhaul winch on the boom?

I hope this was a misprint..NEVER tighten the clew reef lines until the main halyard has been fully tensioned. Doing it the other way is a good way to ruin your mainsail!

 

[Gregoryulrich]

I have another question. I'm leaning towards getting reef hooks and using a line through the clew reef cringle and around the bottom of the boom. How do you get aft tension to keep your sail shape? Using my out haul seems complicated.

 

[Seth]

This is the beauty of it!

This system requires the least hardware and is by far the best in terms of assuring the proper tensions in each direction since it self adjusting and naturally aligns/adjusts for the ideal load distribution, whereas tracks and fixed blocks are almost never in exactly the right place..

In the attached pic, the line goes directly from the sheave at the end of the boom up to the clew reef point, the straight down and through a loop around the boom.
As you add tension to the clew reef line it will self adjust in the down and aft axes to get the ideal position....
NO track or blocks need to be attached to the side of the boom... The video below shows the proper rigging on the clew reef lines in better detail:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsISW4NgPFE‎

Paste this into your browser, and you can see in detail.....

Check it out


Cheers

 

[Gregoryulrich]

I don't have a sheave at the end of my boom. Weird as it is to say it doesn't appear this boat was ever rigged to reef so that is my dilemma. Do I mount a cheek block and a cam cleat in lieu of having the reef line lead through the boom or is there a better way?

 

[Guy Stevens]

Yeah, typos in order

I hope this was a misprint..NEVER tighten the clew reef lines until the main halyard has been fully tensioned. Doing it the other way is a good way to ruin your mainsail!

Yep Seth,

Like I said, It takes longer to explain it than to do it.... Way longer to type it!

Guy