In boom reef lines

[Randy Rutledge]

I plan to run the reefing lines internal of the boom on my E29 T. I plan to add two sheaves on the outside of the boom end in line with the outhaul and make guards for the sheaves to keep the lines on the sheaves. At the mast end I plan to have one exit hole with a cam cleat on an angled base to secure the active reef line.
The boom end reef line holes would only be 3/8” and faired to prevent chafe, the mast end hole would be oval and only large enough for the two lines.
I would like to have input on any problems this might cause or better any ideas. Pictures are attached to help convey the idea.

 

[Frank Langer]

Randy, I'm not sure about positioning the sheave as far back on the boom as your picture shows. On my E30+ I have two sheaves, one for the first reef line and another for the second reef line. Both are further forward on the boom. I can't quite remember how far forward, but I think maybe enough that with the sail's reef cringle at the boom as when reefing, the reef line will be at about a 45 degree angle so that it pulls the sail down and aft at the same time. I'm thinking if it's too far aft, you will overdo the outhaul effect but not get enough downward pull. You may want to think about the position of your sheave with this in mind; others may have more technical feedback or advice. Installation of a two foot sail track on the aft end of the boom would give you the flexibility to move the sheave to obtain the best placement.

Frank

 

[sleather]

Similar setup in the link below. Not sure how well that would work for the second "deep" reef.

I'd be concerned about the "hard spot"/90* bend at the hole in the goose neck casting.

http://www.zsparsuk.com/slaboom.htm

 

[Randy Rutledge]

Thanks Frank and Steve
Your concerns are valid. I will be using the setup Steve pointed out and that diagram is attached below, attaching to the boom, through the clew and to the back end of the boom giving down and back force on the clew.

I also will have to fairlead the lines at the gooseneck end, possibly an open sheave mounted above the cam cleat.

I now have the lines running outside the boom through a couple of guides and when slack gets in the line they are a danger of snagging something or someone.

 

[mherrcat]

With that gooseneck and end fitting I would try to use cheek blocks on the sides of the boom at the front and back and leave the lines on the outside. Where do your reefing lines cleat off now? I don't understand how you could get so much slack in the lines if they are cleated off when you are not reefed. I don't see reefing hooks on the gooseneck; I guess they are out of the frame at the top of the picture?

 

[Randy Rutledge]

Mark
Reefing lines cleat off on the mast. I have cheek blocks on the starboard side of the boom front and two spaced aft of each reef clew. The reefing hook is 17’ below the boat where it bounced off the deck when I was removing the boom clevis pin last fall.
The slack is only a few inches of sag and it just annoys me. I just like the neatness of internal halyards and other lines.
Are your concerns structural or function?

 

[mherrcat]

Just functional.

 

[Guy Stevens]

It seems to me that the problem is the reef lines hanging too low?

Is the issue here that the reef lines are hanging down in the way when you are sailing? The simpler solution would just be to add either some cam cleats to the front of the boom to capture the reef lines (you could use rope clutches, but that seems overkill for a 29).

The reefing lines are cast free to raise the sail, then before heading back to the cockpit after raising the sail, the lines are pulled tight enough that they don't sag and placed in the cam cleats on the sides of the boom.

When reefing leave them in the cam cleats, and then just tighten them with your reefing winch... Pull them out of the cam to release....

When dousing the sail the reefing lines end up everywhere not because of being inside or outside of the boom, but because they are coming down withe the sail.

If the cam cleats don't do the trick for the middle of your reef lines, which I suspect they will just fine, then you can generally ad a single piece of bungy chord around the boom and all the lines on the boom in the middle to help keep things from sagging... Generally this is not needed except in really long booms yours isn't one of those.

Guy

 

[mherrcat]

When dousing the sail the reefing lines end up everywhere not because of being inside or outside of the boom, but because they are coming down withe the sail.

All my lines are led back and when I drop the main I get reefing lines all over the cockpit...



The cam cleats sound like a good idea. Since my lines are all led back I added a cam cleat to the side of my mast so I could raise the main single handed then go back to the cockpit and take in the line that was piled on the deck and raise the last few inches with the halyard winch on the cabin top.

 

[AleksT]

In your current set up do you have fairleads along the boom. If not add about three along the boom. Then the only part of the reef line that will come down when you drop the sail will be the loop that goes up thru the aft reef cringle and that is simple enough to toss over the boom and out of the way. If you still want to go internal get a sheave box to install on the side of the boom near the mast. A faired hole in the front of the boom will chafe your line and then it will break when you need it most. You may also need some sort of cheek block to then route your line to the deck.

 

[Randy Rutledge]

I have three fairleads on the boom and use a 12" ball bungy around the boom and lines. I have a shackle on the goosneck that the lines pass through after the cheek block at the front of the boom. the shackle is a stop for balls (from ball bungy) that are on the lines to prevent them from backing out when not in use. I use a cleats on the mast to cleat the reef.

I just like the neatness of internal of the boom. At times I can't just keep it simple,

 

[tadslc]

My only concern would be the strength of the sheaves on the rear of the boom. Remember that this rear reefing line turns into your outhaul and could be subject to some pretty significant loading.

 

[Seth]

Reef set up

Your plan for the aft end of the boom is rght. As noted in the diagram this is the simplest and cleanest way to do it while ensuring you get proper down and aft tension-it is MUCH cleaner and more precise than having cheek blocks (either fixed or on a track on the side of the boom). Most of the setups I have seen with side mounted blocks suffer from them not being in the ideal spot-the reef cringles must be very carefully placed on the sail. If you have a track on the side of the boom you can adjust some of this out, but you have the weight and complexity of a track on the side of the boom

With respect to the front end, I just want to be sure you are leading the reef line to a winch as Guy suggested. Pulling the lines tight by hand and cleating them will NOT get you anywhere near the tension you need..
The problem I (potentially) see with this is that you need to winch the line down while keeping it led through the cleat. Then, to ease the reef line, you will need to tighten it just a bit and lift it clear of the cleat-there will be too much load to flick it loose by hand. I would prefer to have a fairlead at the front of the boom (instead of the cleat) and then lead it to a self tailing winch mounted on the aft face of the mast, or down to a turning block at the base of the mast and then to a stopper...

Just sayin'....

Cheers

 

[Randy Rutledge]

Thanks Seth
This is the kind of feedback I need. I have a track built in on the boom that the blocks are on now but the boom ends up twisted sideways as the reef is tightened. I have to work on the function of the front design. I have a winch on the mast but it is not self-tailing. I have used it for reefing and then cleat the tail of the line.
Maybe I can use a fairlead, the winch and a cam cleat after the winch.

 

[Seth]

That will work

Hi Randy,

Your plan at the front end with a non-self tailing winch and cleat will certainly work just fine, and is better than having the cleat on the boom at the reef line exit.

Just be sure to use the blocks at the back end of the boom, and lead the reef lines directly from those blocks up to the reef cringles and then straight down to the boom. You can simply tie a bowline around the boom. This way you will be sure to get proper aft and downwards tension as you tighten the reef lines. If your mainsail has foot slides, you should be able to pass the reef line between the foot of the sail and the boom (in between the slides). If you have a boltrope in the foot, just cut a couple of slits in the foot of the sail directly below each cringle, and pass the reef line through the slit and around the boom.. Ideally, have a loft do the slits as they will reinforce it will a piece of webbing or sailcloth.

I would remove the side tracks completely, since it may chafe against the reef lines as they get tensioned (hopefully we agree not to use them!). If you don't want to remove them, another solution (especially if you have foot slides) is to have your sailmaker make up reef straps (one for each reef point). This is a webbing strap with a ring at each end-long enough to go around the boom and have the rings end up about 2-3" above the top of the boom. Pass the strap around the boom and bring the rings together on one side of the mainsail. Tie off each reef line to the rings. The benefit of these straps is they distribute the load on the boom resulting from reefing, and in the case of the boom track-they will prevent the reef line from chafing on the track.

Hope this is understandable- good luck!

S

 

[Randy Rutledge]

Seth

I have a loose footed main so plenty of opening for the reef lines to attach. are straps better than an adjustable padeye in the slide track built in on the side of the boom. The attached picture showes the track formed in the boom.

 

[Seth]

Now I get it

.....so the track is recessed..at least that that is better. I thought you had an external track which might have chafed on a reefline..

Take ALL the cheek blocks out of the track and toss 'em.

Since the main is loose-footed, and your track is recessed, you really don't need any straps (also that is a strong boom, and a small sail). Just run the reef line straight down from the cringle (on the leech), and tie it off around the boom with a reef knot (or a bowline is fine as well).

This will give you the least friction, no boom twisting, and by far the best reefing tension in both directions since the line will naturally self-adjust to the ideal load because it can slide on the boom fore and aft while being pulled back and down by the reef line coming from the back end of the boom.

Using any hardware on the boom adds to all of these problems, so since you have the benefit of being able to do it the right way without taking off any permanent hardware, go for it!

Happy Trails

 

[Matey]

What Seth said .. I think you're right on track Randy. Why someone would want external lines on a nice boom set up as yours, I'm not certain. Your plan is used on allot of production boats. I snagged a Spar Craft boom from my rigger off a Catalina for my 32, it's set-up as you are proposing and works great. A loose footed sail makes it even easier. The line angle aft mentioned is what I want. Lots of outhaul when reducing sail area.
Here's a diagram and picture that may help .. and a video of the set-up .. shortening & attempting to flatten this 28 year old sail off San Francisco in a bit of breeze

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG6CwCOn-Ng

Good Luck,
Greg

 

[Seth]

There you go....

Nice vid-too bad it does not show the absence of any hardware at the aft end of the boom (it is covered by the sail), but the sketch shows it quite well. You can see how well the system works as the sail is set perfectly with the ideal combination of luff, foot and leech tension. As with most things, simplest is best.

To support this point, virtually ALL offshore race boats (who reef and unreef all the time) have this set up (although some will have the straps instead of tying around the boom-normally the reason is that with carbon fiber booms you need to be a bit more careful about point loading, and the straps distribute the load better). Also, almost ALL production racer-cruisers (J boats, Beneteaus, etc.) are supplied with no hardware on the aft end of the boom. This is not to keep costs down, it is because it is the best method for reefing/unreefing quickly and with good sail shape when reefed.

With this set up, and a smart way to get luff tension (reef lines exit from the blocks at the fwd end of the boom and either go down to blocks at the mast step and then through a stopper to a cabin top winch or at the least to a winch on the aft face of the mast with either a cleat or self tailing) you can reef early and often!

S

 

[Matey]

This one shows the clew a bit better. I had a temp. set-up with the 2nd reef line reeved for a flattener (like I said, old sail) don't let it throw you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajYiPavf3wU

Greg