Blge Pump Issues

[Christian Williams]

I've been thinking about bilge pump systems the last couple of weeks (blog entry here). Plenty of food for thought, especially underscored by the loss of Locomotion.

http://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/lectronicday.lasso?date=2016-06-15#Story2

USCG infrared video: https://www.dvidshub.net/video/469006/coast-guard-rescues-3-sailors-150-miles-west-los-angeles

Locomotion, a 46-footer, apparently hit something 150 miles off Los Angeles. It's a fast boat and may have been going fast at the time.

What struck me was the abandonment so close to shore. The hull breach must have been severe, and may have involved the rudder post. In any case, the delivery crew soon determined that rescue was necessary. Luckily they were within helicopter range, which is pretty limited--maybe 300 miles from base, at most.

Our standard bilge pumps have no ability to handle major leaks. I have seen recommendations for a very large manual diaphragm pump, to be placed on the cabin sole and operated by a long handle. Don't have one. For a shorthanded crew, not sure stamina is adequate.

Some hull breaches can be slowed or staunched, and I carry the wood, drywall screws, canvas and plugs to try. That would give bilge pumps a chance.

Nothing on board worked for Locomotion, obviously.

I don't know if there is more debris at sea than before, but there seem to be more collisions reported.

Maybe the real answer isn't more bilge pumps, but a Satphone, EPIRB and inflatable raft.

 

[toddster]

I've thought about that scenario before... Not deeply. It seems as if spade rudders are a weak point on our boats. How would one address a big leak at the rudder post? Perhaps jettison the rudder to avoid loss of the boat. Present an unobstructed hole that could be more feasibly plugged? Then limp home with emergency rudder or drogue steering?

Coincidentally, a couple of days ago, I overheard a long VHF conversation between the Coast Guard and a ketch that broke its tiller. Obviously no backup plan. I couldn't figure out why they didn't just pick up the cell phone and call the Sheriff's boat for a tow. I almost did, but I figured the Sheriff had to be hearing it too.

 

[bgary]

Locomotion

Yeah, that has my attention too.

Reports I've heard from friends of friends is that they hit "something" hard enough to breach the hull around the rudder post ("rudder struck something so hard that the post was knocked free and was left banging around inside the hull").

No watertight bulkheads, insufficient pump capacity and (apparently) not the right tools/supplies to address the problem.

Back In The Day, when I was delivering race boats, I had lots of time to think about that scenario. A lot of the "old school" approaches might still be worth a try - improvised "crash mats", things like stuffing cushions into the hole from the inside, held in place with a sail wrapped around the outside, etc. Probably not possible if the rudder is still in place.

Smaller holes, as you note, might be addressable with plywood (or even plastic or laminate sailcloth), along with a screw gun, "rescue tape" or some sorts of epoxy.

And a raft. And an PLB/EPIRB. And, and, and.

Dunno the answer. But, yeah, the Locomotion thing is certainly cause for reflecting on the question.

 

[toddster]

Someone on some forum claimed that the adhesive-backed butyl membrane used to waterproof basements makes a nifty boat patch. I might have the end of a roll, deep in the barn somewhere. Not sure about the shelf-life.

BTW: for anyone who hasn't looked lately, the price of EPIRBS is going down rapidly. They're around $300 now, which seems to be the magic number for people to spend on boat gadgets. Plus a new model just came out so a lot of last year's stock is on pretty drastic sale price right now.

Neither of these are a bilge pump tho...

 

[bgary]

Yeah.

My mental model has always pivoted around three things
-- survive the event
-- make a lot of noise
-- be able to survive until that noise results in attention

EPIRB is a great way to make a lot of noise.

I'm "told" that AIS-equipped PLBs are coming (they're already out in other markets, apparently some vagary of our FCC regs makes them problematic in the US). But being able to blast out a signal that says who you are and where you are seems like a good thing.

 

[Alan Gomes]

Yeah.

My mental model has always pivoted around three things
-- survive the event
-- make a lot of noise
-- be able to survive until that noise results in attention

EPIRB is a great way to make a lot of noise.

I'm "told" that AIS-equipped PLBs are coming (they're already out in other markets, apparently some vagary of our FCC regs makes them problematic in the US). But being able to blast out a signal that says who you are and where you are seems like a good thing.

Great thread!

My near collision with a whale a week ago Sunday surely has me thinking about the whole PLB thing. Had that whale struck and seriously holed the boat it would have been "whale 1, wimpy bilge pump 0." My bilge pump is useful for reducing the amount of water that sloshes around in those shallow bilge compartments, but as a safety item it is of limited (and in most scenarios of no) value.

My boat has a VHF with DSC that I could have fired off in the short interval before the boat went down, but a PLB sending out my location continuously while in the water would be a great addition.

 

[tabaka]

---

I carry in my kit a block of wax. Go to home despot and get a few wax toilet seal rings. Store them as is or warm them up a little and pour into a tupperware container. That stuff will stick to anything and doesn't harden. It's great for sealing leaks around hard to reach spots and next to joints where you can't get a plug or a board to screw down.

 

[Rick R.]

I carry a life raft, PLB, Satphone and a tub of Stay Afloat for patching small breaches. Scary thought but we need to be prepared.

 

[Christian Williams]

My offshore keep-going kit is based on stud lumber, plywood, drywall screws, Japanese saw and electric drill.

The idea is to be able to build a frame inside the boat to press plugging material--blankets, clothes, life jackets, wax--against the breach.

We once broke the nine-foot daggerboard off a 38-foot racing trimaran, and the board box began leaking. No joy at all with exterior means, trying to tie a sail under the hull, and so on. What worked was C-clamps holding dinghy paddles against the leak on the inside. It was clumsy but conceptually straightforward.

It's not hard to store 4-foot lengths of 2x4. Long drywall screws drive easily into it, and permit any sort of erector set desired.

With a drill for pilot holes, plywood can also be screwed to the hull after being cut to shape with the saw.

At least it would give me something to do.

 

[gadangit]

My offshore keep-going kit is based on stud lumber, plywood, drywall screws, Japanese saw and electric drill.

Interesting concept. Are you thinking the plywood to be thin enough to conform to the hull? Or more as the face of a plunger to stack your life jackets, blankets and such.

Chris

 

[Christian Williams]

I've got quarter-inch, a piece that lies flat under the V-berth cushions (carried offshore only).

Might conform to hull shape a little, I figure. Yes, a surface for the brace to push/hold padding against the leak. Could be doubled if necessary.

Works great--in the imagination.

 

[paul culver]

How about an umbrella pushed through the hole from inside to outside and then opened? I read about this many years ago. I have no idea if this works but I do keep an umbrella on the boat.

Tristan Jones says he successfully used the seat cushion stuffing method in one of his books.

Paul
E29 "Bear"

 

[Alan Gomes]

How about an umbrella pushed through the hole from inside to outside and then opened? I read about this many years ago. I have no idea if this works but I do keep an umbrella on the boat.

Tristan Jones says he successfully used the seat cushion stuffing method in one of his books.

Paul
E29 "Bear"

Here ya go: http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/sailing-skills/crash-test-boat-holed-sinking-2-29668

 

[bgary]

Wow. great article. Thank you!

 

[Alan Gomes]

Wow. great article. Thank you!

It is indeed! You should also poke around the site and check out all the other things these guys have done to their "crash test" boats. The remotely-detonated propane tank explosion is one of my favorites!

 

[Loren Beach]

That "crash test" boat...

Several years ago a retired sailing friend got us a subscription to Yachting Monthly. http://www.yachtingmonthly.com
It's one of the best REAL sailing magazines on the market.
That is my not-at-all humble opinion.

I look forward to it eagerly each month.

They seem to take sailing and boat ownership (and maintaining their boats) a *lot* more seriously in the UK.

We also read Practical Boat Owner, from the UK. Neither of these is cheap, but then quality things never are.

That whole series of articles and videos from the (eventual) total destruction of that poor sailboat were very informative.

Loren

 

[Rocinante33]

My offshore keep-going kit is based on stud lumber, plywood, drywall screws, Japanese saw and electric drill.

The idea is to be able to build a frame inside the boat to press plugging material--blankets, clothes, life jackets, wax--against the breach.

We once broke the nine-foot daggerboard off a 38-foot racing trimaran, and the board box began leaking. No joy at all with exterior means, trying to tie a sail under the hull, and so on. What worked was C-clamps holding dinghy paddles against the leak on the inside. It was clumsy but conceptually straightforward.

It's not hard to store 4-foot lengths of 2x4. Long drywall screws drive easily into it, and permit any sort of erector set desired.

With a drill for pilot holes, plywood can also be screwed to the hull after being cut to shape with the saw.

At least it would give me something to do.

Don't forget a piece of PVC heavy wall (1" or 1 1/4") which can be cut to length, then insert a screw jack in the end of it. You can then tighten it against your board to secure the board against the interior of the hull to try to staunch that inrush of water. The other end of the PVC would be propped up against the interior coach roof or any other appropriate spot.