What holds the rudder up?

[rgraham]

I moved this out of Zoran,s thread... In other words what keeps the rudder from slipping down until the steering quadrant is touching the packing gland? What part maintains the space that the red arrow is pointing to in the attached picture (which I borrowed from Zoran's posting). Maybe Guy Stevens can answer this.

 

[treilley]

I could be wrong but I believe the rudder post is held on by the steering quadrant and the bolts that go through the rudder stock.

 

[skipper007]

I redid my rudder on my 1974 E32 (search wobbly rudder) and found:
1. with the rudder trunk properly shimmed (Delrin tape) and greased - the rudder was suspended in the yard with NOTHING else attached to it. So good raceway could hold it.
2. Indeed there is a thru bolt in the quadrant, but doesn't explain a gap between packing gland and quadrant
3. The emergency tiller deck attachment also has a thru bolt. This is most likely the same on the III versions as the II that I own. I suspect this is your answer. In my post I show a picture of the new Delrin bearing I installed at the tiller plate. I actually had to sand the top delrin ring off to allow the stainless (chrome?) top of the stock to rest completely on the plate - to allow insertion of both of the thru bolts (quadrant and tiller cap) during reassembly.
Capisce?
Skip

 

[Cory B]

3. The emergency tiller deck attachment also has a thru bolt. This is most likely the same on the III versions as the II that I own. I suspect this is your answer. In my post I show a picture of the new Delrin bearing I installed at the tiller plate. I actually had to sand the top delrin ring off to allow the stainless (chrome?) top of the stock to rest completely on the plate - to allow insertion of both of the thru bolts (quadrant and tiller cap) during reassembly.
Capisce?
Skip

Actually, they are a little different. Most of the 70's boats I've seen have the throughbolt arrangement that you described that you attach the tiller to (very nice), while most of the 80's boats require you to remove a deck plate and slide a pipe/tube thing down there.

The 80's boats rudders seem to be held up exclusively by the quadrant. I think on ours there was a rubber or delrin washer between the top of the rudder post and the quadrant though.

I like the 70's design better, with both the quadrant and the cap holding the post up, but it would be toe snubber for where the rudder post is put on the 80's boat.

(We've actually owned both a 70's and an 80's boat)

 

[EGregerson]

bolt

I have radial steering on an E34 1987; my old '86 E28 with tiller was esstentially the same set up: big bolt thru the log and rudder shaft. I just support the rudder from below; removed the bolt; the rudder slips right down. Looks like you need to replace the packing under that gland.

 

[rgraham]

The Gap...

Ok maybe the quadrant holds it in by resting against the packing gland. If the packing gland is frozen to the rudder shaft it would explain the gap because the gland is turning in the tube and supporting the wieght. It would also explain why my gland is turning in the tube as well on my E36 (RH). To me if this is the case it seems like a design flaw because the weight of the rudder pressing against the gland is going to create enough friction over time to cause the gland to spin in the tube because it is not a proper bearing surface.

Robert

 

[Ray Rhode]

Robert,

Had the same problem on Jounrey. The PO had tightened the rudder stuffing unevenly. This caused the stuffing box to bind on the shaft and turn with the rudder shaft (that first turn of the wheel must have been tough). I discovered it because it would leak at anything over about 5 knots. Had the local boat fixer raise the stuffing box enough to get some 4200 in the gap and then drill and bottom tap the stuffing box so that it could be thru bolted to the rudder tube. No more problems.

Ray Rhode
S/V Journey
E35-III, #189

 

[oldworld]

Ray, I have the gap and movement previously described. I like the fix you had done, although, I am bit confused on how it is through bolted to the rudder tube. Is the 4200 all the is fixing the gland to the rudder tube? Thanks for your input.

 

[Chris A.]

On my 34 there is a delrin / plastic spacer ring occupying the space that the arrow in the photograph is pointing to. When I removed that spacer, you could lift the rudder up and down by that amount. The downward motion would stop when the quadrant (which is thru-bolted to the rudder post as Tim said) came in contact w/ the top of the packing gland. The upward motion would stop when the top of the rudder came in contact with the bottom of the hull.

You can tighten the gland enough so that, at least with my muscle force, the rudder post becomes impossible to move up and down. I found that the "feel" of the steering was noticeably reduced w/ the gland that tight, so I backed off some on the gland to regain that movement- but not enough that it leaks.

In the water remember that the rudder is fairly bouyant, so if there are no spacers and the gland allows some up and down movement of the rudder post, you can (and I did) get some thumping under certain sea conditions as the rudder moves up and down. So we have a spacer between the packing gland and the quadrant, as well as a thinner spacer between the top of the rudder and the bottom of the boat. Together they minimize the slop in the up and down dimension.

Hope that helps...

 

[Ray Rhode]

The rudder tube was drilled and then the flange was drilled and tapped with a bottom tap. This was done with the rudder in place. The flange was not drilled all the was through. The effect was similar to using a set screw on your bimini frame. The 4200 is there only as a sealant. Have had no trouble since.

Ray