Thickening epoxy with 406 colloidal silica

Stuart 28-2

Member II
It seems ketchup, mayonnaise, and peanut butter are the terms people use to describe how thick. I was going for slightly thicker than mayonnaise.

Does anyone have a tip for mixing in the colloidal silica?
It took me about an hour to mix in slightly more than a Dixie cup full of epoxy.
Temperature was upper 50's and then low 60's. Took as long both times.
 

texlan

Member I
Blogs Author
It seems ketchup, mayonnaise, and peanut butter are the terms people use to describe how thick. I was going for slightly thicker than mayonnaise.

Does anyone have a tip for mixing in the colloidal silica?
It took me about an hour to mix in slightly more than a Dixie cup full of epoxy.
Temperature was upper 50's and then low 60's. Took as long both times.
I use quart-mixing cups and wooden paint stirrers for anything more than two pumps of epoxy. Also, since the silica floats on top, I use a very slow "submerge"/push the silica down method until the silica is wetted out (ie not floating away with every puff of wind).

So,
1) mix epoxy and hardener for a minute.
2) add silica
3) push silica down through the epoxy for about 45 seconds-a minute, until it's wetted enough to not float away
4) stir normally until smooth
3) add more silica, repeat.

I can usually get to a good mayo/peanut butter consistency in under 5 minutes on a dixie cup or two worth of epoxy @ 75ish degrees. of course, if it's colder, it's harder to stir, but the big paint stir sticks are the hot tip vs. tongue depressors. buy them in bulk...
 

debonAir

Member III
What kind of epoxy? 406 should blend in to pre-mixed epoxy with very little effort. I'd even say less time than that needed to mix the epoxy itself. Upper 50's is border-line for epoxy curing weather, but sometimes it has to be done. I use an old halogen work light near the application to keep it warm since I am impatient.
 

Stuart 28-2

Member II
I use quart-mixing cups and wooden paint stirrers for anything more than two pumps of epoxy. Also, since the silica floats on top, I use a very slow "submerge"/push the silica down method until the silica is wetted out (ie not floating away with every puff of wind).

So,
1) mix epoxy and hardener for a minute.
2) add silica
3) push silica down through the epoxy for about 45 seconds-a minute, until it's wetted enough to not float away
4) stir normally until smooth
3) add more silica, repeat.

I can usually get to a good mayo/peanut butter consistency in under 5 minutes on a dixie cup or two worth of epoxy @ 75ish degrees. of course, if it's colder, it's harder to stir, but the big paint stir sticks are the hot tip vs. tongue depressors. buy them in bulk...
Thanks. The difference between your 1 - 5 and what I do is the paint stirrer vs the the tongue depressor. I was doing it in paper cups probably the next size up from Dixie cups - maybe 3 times bigger in volume so thought the tongue depressors were the way to go. I will switch to larger container and paints sticks.
 

Stuart 28-2

Member II
What kind of epoxy? 406 should blend in to pre-mixed epoxy with very little effort. I'd even say less time than that needed to mix the epoxy itself. Upper 50's is border-line for epoxy curing weather, but sometimes it has to be done. I use an old halogen work light near the application to keep it warm since I am impatient.
The epoxy is Total Boat. Curing took hours. I started to doubt the pumps were delivering 5:1 but they were fine.
 

Stuart 28-2

Member II
What kind of epoxy? 406 should blend in to pre-mixed epoxy with very little effort. I'd even say less time than that needed to mix the epoxy itself. Upper 50's is border-line for epoxy curing weather, but sometimes it has to be done. I use an old halogen work light near the application to keep it warm since I am impatient.
The epoxy is Total Boat. Curing took hours. I started to doubt the pumps were delivering 5:1 but they were fine
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I have used the West System product for about 30 years, and used the fast hardener down to 50 degrees. At that temperature I usually add some external heat from a little heater or a heat lamp. You do have to stay close and be sure that the added heat is moderate....
 

bigd14

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
I have worked with colloidal silica thickened epoxy a whole lot. I bought a 30 gallon bag of it years ago for a recore project and store it in an plastic garbage can. Its versatile stuff. I will often use a little milled fiberglass to really make it bombroof. My method is a pretty similar to texlans but with a few differences:

1. I use a respirator. This stuff is really nasty for the lungs
2. Find a wind-free area. I have been known to set up sheets of plywood, tarps or other temporary barriers.
3. I use quart containers. Old yoghurt tubs are great.
4. I like to use two large size tongue depressors doubled up since the thickened epoxy is pretty stiff (I have tried paint sticks but I prefer the doubled up tongue depressors, seems like more control and ability to scrape sides of the bucket easily)
5. Make sure the epoxy is flowing well. Might require warming as Loren mentioned above.
6. Mix the epoxy for 30 seconds to a minute.
7. I add the silica in two or more batches, with the first being 1/2-2/3 the final amount. I'll mix the first batch well then gradually add more until the desired consistency is achieved. It's easy to get too much.
8. If I have added the right amount of silica in the first batch I don't lose too much of it, unless it's windy. If in doubt, I'll start with smaller batches of silica.
9 I never use more than 4-6 pumps of epoxy per pot. Trying to mix a large batch is very difficult.
10. Using the tongue depressors, I scoop the epoxy up and gently fold it over the silica, kind of like cake batter. I only start stirring it once most of the silica is folded in. If you start stirring immediately it all poofs out of the container.
11. I use two new "tongue depressors" for each batch.
 

Stuart 28-2

Member II
I have worked with colloidal silica thickened epoxy a whole lot. I bought a 30 gallon bag of it years ago for a recore project and store it in an plastic garbage can. Its versatile stuff. I will often use a little milled fiberglass to really make it bombroof. My method is a pretty similar to texlans but with a few differences:

1. I use a respirator. This stuff is really nasty for the lungs
2. Find a wind-free area. I have been known to set up sheets of plywood, tarps or other temporary barriers.
3. I use quart containers. Old yoghurt tubs are great.
4. I like to use two large size tongue depressors doubled up since the thickened epoxy is pretty stiff (I have tried paint sticks but I prefer the doubled up tongue depressors, seems like more control and ability to scrape sides of the bucket easily)
5. Make sure the epoxy is flowing well. Might require warming as Loren mentioned above.
6. Mix the epoxy for 30 seconds to a minute.
7. I add the silica in two or more batches, with the first being 1/2-2/3 the final amount. I'll mix the first batch well then gradually add more until the desired consistency is achieved. It's easy to get too much.
8. If I have added the right amount of silica in the first batch I don't lose too much of it, unless it's windy. If in doubt, I'll start with smaller batches of silica.
9 I never use more than 4-6 pumps of epoxy per pot. Trying to mix a large batch is very difficult.
10. Using the tongue depressors, I scoop the epoxy up and gently fold it over the silica, kind of like cake batter. I only start stirring it once most of the silica is folded in. If you start stirring immediately it all poofs out of the container.
11. I use two new "tongue depressors" for each batch.
That's great detail. Many thanks!
 

texlan

Member I
Blogs Author
I have worked with colloidal silica thickened epoxy a whole lot. I bought a 30 gallon bag of it years ago for a recore project and store it in an plastic garbage can. Its versatile stuff. I will often use a little milled fiberglass to really make it bombroof. My method is a pretty similar to texlans but with a few differences:

1. I use a respirator. This stuff is really nasty for the lungs
2. Find a wind-free area. I have been known to set up sheets of plywood, tarps or other temporary barriers.
3. I use quart containers. Old yoghurt tubs are great.
4. I like to use two large size tongue depressors doubled up since the thickened epoxy is pretty stiff (I have tried paint sticks but I prefer the doubled up tongue depressors, seems like more control and ability to scrape sides of the bucket easily)
5. Make sure the epoxy is flowing well. Might require warming as Loren mentioned above.
6. Mix the epoxy for 30 seconds to a minute.
7. I add the silica in two or more batches, with the first being 1/2-2/3 the final amount. I'll mix the first batch well then gradually add more until the desired consistency is achieved. It's easy to get too much.
8. If I have added the right amount of silica in the first batch I don't lose too much of it, unless it's windy. If in doubt, I'll start with smaller batches of silica.
9 I never use more than 4-6 pumps of epoxy per pot. Trying to mix a large batch is very difficult.
10. Using the tongue depressors, I scoop the epoxy up and gently fold it over the silica, kind of like cake batter. I only start stirring it once most of the silica is folded in. If you start stirring immediately it all poofs out of the container.
11. I use two new "tongue depressors" for each batch.
Double-ditto on the respirator/good quality mask. Silica is worse than fiberglass in the lungs. It'll kill you, long and slow like.

I used to use doubled up tongue depressors, but on larger batches I kept breaking them and even if i didn't, the epoxy that got between the sticks always bothered me (more waste..)

I (ironically) just mixed a pretty big batch (6 pumps epoxy, 3 pumps resin.. I use 2-1 Marinepoxy for most of my stuff (cures more flexible than 3-1 or 5-1 like west, less cracking on impact and works better with the thermal expansion/contraction of wood substrates) yesterday. I thought about videoing the process and posting it here to show the technique, but I was already mixing so fail on that. I'll try to remember to demo next batch i do..

The key to my technique is to tip the container so that you can get the broad side of your mixing stick over as much silica as possible, and then push it down into/through the epoxy, then bring it back up through the epoxy and repeat. it's a very deliberate motion, similar to your folding action just the other way around. I had mixed in 3-batches of silica in about 3.5 minutes, it went really fast.

Last thing to note, before it's really thickened, the silica tends to bead/clump up a lot. Don't waste too much time trying to smooth it out until it's closer to the consistency you're trying to achieve, just add more silica and go back to folding it in. As it gets thicker, it seems like the sheer of the viscosity helps to tear apart the clumps and it becomes smooth really fast at that point.
 
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