Talk to me about headliners??

[Maine Sail]

Hi All,

My wife and I have an Ericson 32-300 on our short list of boats to buy and other than the "icky" headliner & no ST winches we like the boat. Actually the headliner is in good shape but it grosses my wife out and the boat does have a distinct "musty odor" to it that my wife seems to think is the headliner. Her comments were "it's like a Sea Ray or Winnebago", "I thought Ericson's were high quality why would they put a vinyl headliner in a boat with 20k worth of teak cabinetry on the interior" & "there will be mold & things growing under there". So my question is how do I win my wife over on the point of a headliner? Has anyone removed this and replaced it with wood? Anyone come across this situation? My sticking point is not the headliner but the fact that a 1989 boat does not have any self tailing winches and I'm looking at close to 4k to convert to ST's. Why was Ericson not installing ST's in 1989? I owned a 1985 Catalina that came standard with Lewmar Chrome ST's & build quality wise a Catalina is a few notches below an Ericson..

We do really like the boat and it has been fairly well cared for but this headliner thing has my wife between a rock and a hard place..

Advice please??

Maine Sail

 

[NateHanson]

Is this one of the boats with a zip-in headliner? If so, then perhaps having a new headliner made by a local canvas shop would be a reasonable option.

I've also seen boats modified to hold headliner panels between teak or mahogany battens secured to the underside of the deck. Those panels could be fabric-covered 1/8" ply, or even varnished teak-veneer plywood. However, I'd advise that a white headliner adds a lot of light to a cabin. Switching to wood might really turn the salon into a cave.

 

[Morgan Stinemetz]

Hi,
On the subject of self-tailing winches, I have had the original Barlows on my boat for the 30 years I've owned it. Not ST, of course. My boat is a 27 and behind the winches I have installed a jam cleat laid flat. When the line is pulled into the cleat it holds. The jam cleats have been on there for 20 years or so.
I think to some degree it's what you are brought up with. I race the boat and we can tack it very fast without ST winches, because there is nothing for the line to get hung up on. I am not at all convinced that putting $4K into new winches is actually worth it when $20 worth of jam cleats will almost do the same job.
Morgan Stinemetz

 

[jkm]

Can't give too much advice on headliners as my boat came without-which I like just fine.
On the issue of ST winches, I picked up two on Ebay last winter for $600 and they were not only a bargain, but serviced before I got them. Spending $ 4000 for a few winches is nuts, especially downeast where your sailing season is July, and maybe August if you like fog.

Just go to ebay and start looking. I'm sure you'll like what you find and if not just give it a little time.

Good luck.

John

 

[Loren Beach]

You may have mean't to say an "Ericson 32-200" -- that's the late model 32 with the aft head and aft cabin on the other side. Same lay out as our boat.

Vinyl-fabric headliners were common on many boats where the builder did not use a molded FRP pan. The later saves time and money and gives a smooth surface overhead... at the direct disadvantage of access to wiring and hardware backing. A fabricated set of removable panels overhead is better, but drives up the build price. Ericson chose a middle ground with a tough "naugahide" type liner, as did Islander, Pacific Seacraft, and others. Subjective observation: tt gives a much "warmer" apperance than white gel coat.
Ericson put their money into a full-Monty teak interior. Their hull/deck/keel design and the vital hull-to-deck joint added costs, as well, over the cheaper boats.

Winches? Interesting comment... I know that self tailers were an option, and was lucky to find an '88 model where the first owner had checked this off on his option list. OTOH, you may be missing less than you think. Note that only Barient had the patent on adjustable jaws and my '88 Lewmars (with little Ericson emblems printed on top of each) have fixed jaws for the ST's. By the early 90's, Lewmar had gained the rights from out-of-business Barient to update their winch designs. Ericson may have made a quality/cost-based decision to go with the higher quality Barient over the early-technology Lewmar ST, but we will never really know, after all these years.

There is good news, however, on the winch situation. There is a company doing ST conversions on those indestructable Barients installed on so many high-dollar 80's boats. URL: http://www.winchmate.com/

Note that it will NOT cost 4K to convert... today's price for a pair of new Andersen 46ST winches is $2536. at Rigging Only. (They do warn that a substantial price increase is forecast for May 1, though)

Our (mis)used boat was not nearly so nice inside as you describe the one you are looking at, and we spend a year erradicating mold and mildew from the cushions and under the sole. OTOH, our headliner just needed a scrub with soap and water. 12 years later it is still looking quite fine.

Best of luck,
Loren in PDX

 

[Frank Langer]

About headliner....

I recall seeing a previous post, with pictures, of an Ericson owner who had stripped the interior and redone the teak, including a beautiful job of replacing the headliner. The pictures showed before and after, and were just lovely. Maybe that person could identify themselves here again, and perhaps repost those pictures. If not, a search on this site might reveal them.
Good luck!
Frank.

 

[treilley]

Hey Maine, glad to see you finally made it over here. This is a great site for Ericson info. Do a search on headliner and you will get all kinds of great threads of how people solved these issues. My headliner is in excellent shape except for a small part in the vberth. I like the soft liner for easy access and a warm feeling to the interior. I think using a wood(natural) really darkens up the cabin too much. Some here have used a painted bead board with teak trim which is very sharp. Keep in mind that the musty smell is most likely coming from the upholstery and the bilge is probably the source. How long has the boat gone unused? Also, check for the operation of the zippers as these usually freeze up. There are some good methods for freeing them. I have all but one of mine freed up and most all were seized when I bought the boat.

As for the winches, I think Loren is correct that they were an option. The original owner of my boat ordered it with the full racing package so I have 6 Barient Sts which are awesome machines.

BTW, what happened to Nonsuch? I thought the admiral was sold on one of those?

Remember, I would be glad to go look at any boats(Ericson) with you if you like as I have been inside just about every system on these boats to this point.

 

[ref_123]

A Headliner you want to keep...

Well, after chartering Catalinas for a long time I can tell you I like our vinyl headliner. Few reasons: 1) does not let the condensate to accumulate that much. Oh, those wonderful mornings in Catalina when you wake up from a cold water drops falling on your face... 2) Soft - less boo-boos for my head even if it accidentally finds a "common ground" with a cabin roof; 3) - adds to sound-proofing and heat-proofing of the boat, although that last argument kind of depends on a state of the foam behind the headliner...

So, for me and my wife that headliner is a keeper .

Regards,
Stanly, a very happy owner of E32-3

 

[Martin King]

Hi All,
My sticking point is not the headliner but the fact that a 1989 boat does not have any self tailing winches and I'm looking at close to 4k to convert to ST's. Why was Ericson not installing ST's in 1989? I owned a 1985 Catalina that came standard with Lewmar Chrome ST's & build quality wise a Catalina is a few notches below an Ericson..



Advice please??

Maine Sail

No self tailers? Smelly overhead? You are right, you should
buy a Catalina.

Martin

 

[Maine Sail]

Thanks for the responses..

Most of them! The last one I find quite rude and ridiculous. Way to recruit potential new owners Martin!

Beyond that I was looking for advice on swinging the admiral to accept a boat with a headliner and there were some good responses with good ammunition. Self tailer's are not a need but a want and most boats of this vintage had them so I was merely asking why an 89 did not have them when many of the "lesser" brands did. That's it it was not a slam on Ericson just a question. I single hand quite a bit and prefer them to non ST winches especially when sailing alone.

Yes I made a typo and the boat we are looking at is indeed a 32-200 and not a 32-300.

Tim, to answer your question about the Nonsuch we are still looking and it's our first choice IF we can find one that has not been ridden hard and put away wet. Condition and solid maintenance are our first criteria then the boat. I do not want a project boat. Been there done that! We have looked at 8 of them and only one barely makes the short list. If some of the owners of the used boats we've seen had the Dept of health out to their houses, and they looked the way their used boats do, they would be shut down and condemned! A weekend with some cleaning supplies could net some of these folks 10k more in asking price!!

Oh and don't even get me going about brokers ratings of used boats! "So Mr. Broker on a scale of one to ten what condition is this boat before I drive 200 miles to look at it" "she's a solid 8" then we get there and the boat is dripping 'coffee stains" from the rotted deck core, the sole is delaminating from overflowing bilge water and the engine looks like the Exxon Valdez oil spill!

I've also witnessed some boats that appear to be in fine condition until I pull out my moisture meter. Maintenance is not merely cosmetic and I won't buy a boat with wet decks. Finding a good used boat is next to impossible and we have looked at close to 25 in the last two months including the 8 Nonsuches..

 

[treilley]

I am not sure what your point is Martin but I did not get the idea that Maine Sail was saying a Catalina is better than an Ericson. Just the contrary I think.

 

[Martin King]

Well I stand corrected. I thought he was trolling and then dissing
the very thing he asked about. By the way, this site has never been
about convincing would-be owners to buy Ericsons or any thing else.

Regarding the overhead, the vinyl was usually backed by a thin piece
of open cell foam- a great place for mildew to start. These vinyl
headliners have been used in many production boats including
Hinckley and Swan as they are a fast way to get a decent look.
Unfortunately if the smell is really bad, the only way to fix it is
replacement. Several owners here including myself have gone with
wood overheads or a combination of wood with upholstered panels
that velcro on. These have the added advantage of access to
deck harware anywhere and anytime you want.

Regarding self tailing winches. Ericson was offering this option
as far back as the 70's on some models.Ericsons could be
loaded up with as much or little deck kit as the owners desired
or could afford, just like buying a new car. It was never a one
size fits all approach, take it or leave it proposition-and this
is why there are differences even among the same models.

Martin

 

[Sean Engle]

... By the way, this site has never been about convincing would-be owners to buy Ericsons or any thing else...

Now I'm insulted!

 

[Lew Decker]

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c262/LDecker/P1010169.jpg

I couldn't get the pic over here but the link showed up. This is the interior of my boat with the new headliner - basically a similar kind of naugahyde to the original but stretched over doorskin panels and held in place with teak battens. It was a time consuming job that I was happy to finish. The overhead has been in place for a year or more and doesn't show any signs of sagging.

The PO removed the original headliner but never replaced it. Apparently there was a lot of mold and decomposed foam backing. I couldn't believe the number of staples they had to pull. I'm glad he did it and not me.

 

[Al Emondi]

As for me, the vinyl headliner was one of the things that sold the boat for me. I had just renovated a 24' Hinterhoeller Shark and I learned first hand the necessity for accessibility. Since then, I have been behind the headliner multiple times running wires, mounting new chain plate backings, new wiring for the mast and speakers, and new deck organizers. So, for me, the vinyl headliner is a keeper. I just wish it had more zippers. Anyone with pics of their modified headliners with removable panels would be very interesting to see.

 

[Loren Beach]

Nice Headliner

I dragged Lew's photo of his new overhead to the desktop, reduced the size slightly, and added a little more lighting -- here it is. Lew, hope you do not mind my doing this. Your boat is beautiful.

I just wish my 34 had enough "spare" headroom to allow for something like this...
My head is touching that vinyl enough as it is, now. Perhaps as I get older and shrink a bit more, this will be less of a problem. (?)


Loren

 

[Chris Miller]

Didn't Guy do bamboo or something on his 46? Whatever it was, it looked fantastic. Maine, if you do change it- make sure that you can get to EVERY nook and cranny for wiring etc...
$0.02

 

[Guy Stevens]

Yes Bamboo

I did bamboo. It was an idea that a friend of mine and I had for a while. It is bamboo flooring material tongue and grove. (We have also done the traditional spruce, oak, and a few others. With the traditional spacing between the lengths.) It allows for great access to the parts that are bedded above the headliner. Another real plus is that it makes the boat a lot cooler in the summer, and a lot warmer in the winter. (There is a 1/2 or so dead airspace between the deck and the bottom of the headliner. It is amazing how much difference it made.) In any case it is tougher than you would need for the application, and came prefinished with floor level finish. (It does not scratch easily). It was easier to install than any of the other overhead materials that we have used. Still time consuming, but in the end it looks awesome.


The down side is that it does add some more weight than the standard panels wrapped in vinyl idea.

It is hard to get a good feel for in the photos. It is probably the nicest headliner that I have seen to date. Everyone comments on it when they come in the boat. It gets petted a lot people seem to be drawn to touch it when they get to the bottom of the companionway.

Guy

 

[dfharris02]

Headliner

Hi:

I have a 1988 Ericson 38-200. It has the vinyl headliner and I'm amazed how good it looks after twenty years. If there's a musty odor aboard I would suspect that the foam in the cushions would be the main cause of the odors instead of the headliner.

The headline is easily cleaned with a mild soap and you can always put a vinyl conditioner on it. I highly recommend a touch of WD 40 on the zippers so that they don't corrode.

I had a Catalina 36 a few years back which is a fine boat. However, there was no headliner and every time we slept aboard the ceiling sweated and dripped on us. This has never occurred on the the Ericson because there's so much teak and the headliner is an excellent insulator.

Ericson's sail beautifully because they arent' overly beamy and tall like today's modern production boats.

Finally I've had boats with ST winches and non ST winches. The largest boat I had without ST winches was a Hans Christian 38. There are pros and cons to each...I'd sail the boat to determine if you really need tem. Good luck in your search.

David

David