Routine mechanical maintenance advice....

jacksonkev

jacksonkev

Member III
Sorry in advance for the simplicity (and length) of these questions but Google isn't getting me where I need to be....

I bought a 1981 E30+ with a Universal 5416 (M-20) about a year ago. She was well taken care of by the PO but I'd like to dive into some basic maintenance stuff (and could use a little advice). My old E29 had an Atomic 4 and I did most of the routine maintenance but my diesel engine knowledge is limited at best. I've changed the lubricating oil (10W40) and filter (NAPA 1348) and cleaned the raw water filter element but that's about it so far. So, here are a couple questions...

1. When I changed the oil, I switched from SAE 30 to 10W40. I only got about 2.5-3 quarts out of the dipstick bore with an oil extractor. So, simple math would suggest that I still have about 1 qt. of SAE 30 mixed with the 10W40. Is this bad enough to merit another quick change? Or do I just leave it until next season?

2. Coolant-Do I just top the coolant off or drain and refill? No idea how long it's been. I think I read somewhere that mixing coolants is not a great idea, true? Also, there's an aftermarket coolant overflow tank installed. What's the purpose of the overflow? And when topping off or refilling, do I still top off to the same mark? I've never had a radiator on a boat :rolleyes: as my A4 was raw water only cooled.

3. I inspected the alternator belt and it looks pretty worn. So, I bought a Gates 7410 belt (based on Google search). Is there a trick to installing it? I tried once and felt like it was too short. I double checked the part #'s and that seems to be the one. I put the old one back on and retensioned it. Maybe I'm missing something?

4. I'd like to change the fuel oil filter(s) but I'm completely clueless here. Is there a photo diagram online (with parts labeled) for this engine. I Googled every which way and got nothing. :confused: I think I have 2 fuel oil filters, 1 near the fuel injector pump and 1 mounted inline on a T between the tank and the engine. Does this sound right or is the bulkhead mounted filter the fuel oil filter (NAPA 3390)? I have no idea what the heck this filter is. It's old and generic looking with no labels or brand ID's. I'm assuming I need to replace it but have no idea except to pull it off. Seems stupid....especially if I can't find one locally.

5. For the transmission fluid-do I simply top it off or should I drain and refill? I'm assuming it hasn't been drained in years. If so, I couldn't find any draining instructions online.

6. I read about replacing the heat exchanger zinc, can someone describe this process and where to purchase the proper zinc?

7. Separate of the engine, I've read that there is a potential dangerous electrical situation with regard to ammeters/trailer plugs with some panels. How do I know if I have one of these (see attached photo) and if so, how do I get an electrician to fix it without charging me a king's ransom? I hate working on AC or DC stuff but don't want to get fleeced.

8. Lastly! :egrin: Is there a recommended maintenance schedule to be performed by a mechanic (outside of the normal routine stuff that I can easily do myself)? The engine starts right up, runs well and there is no smoke but I doubt the PO had many visits from a mechanic. I figured I would do the...

-Clean the raw water filter
-Lubricating oil/filter changes
-Fuel filter changes
-Transmission fluid
-Heat exchanger zinc
-Change the raw water impeller
-Coolant
-Check the belt

I'd like to get the next level of inspection/tune up without simply paying a mechanic $300 to check my work. Seeing that the boat is fairly new to me (and I didn't have a mechanic survey the engine while I had the boat surveyed) I'd like to be sure she's running on all cylinders (so to speak...)

Thank you in advance with any advice you might be willing to share!


attachment.php
 

Attachments

  • IMG_4855.jpg
    IMG_4855.jpg
    36.3 KB · Views: 745
Christian Williams

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Good list. I'll try #2.

We're supposed to change the coolant periodically. We're not supposed to mix coolant brands or types.

The overflow tank is there because coolant expands when it gets hot--and has somewhere to go. As the engine cools, the coolant is magically drawn back into the engine.

A good diesel mechanic (Martin Ball of San Pedro) told me a few months ago that the coolant should always be all the way to the filler cap when cold. He sees few boats like that, apparently because that means coolant overflow into the reservoir when running the engine. His point was that coolant overflow when running is normal, that's why the reservoir is there, so the cooling system can contain more coolant.

It's common for unused overflow tanks to have cracks, or the hoses to them to be brittle or leaky. So take a look. The fix is easy, and such leaks may be why a prior owner stopped topping off his coolant, which caused leaks, which created the unintended consequence of the low coolant level Martin described.

A 50/50 mixture with water is the usual recommendation. Pure antifreeze is not recommended.

The system needs to be bled of air bubbles, same idea as the fuel system. This especially necessary if you have a water heater in the system. If the water heater is below the level of the filler cap, it will bleed "automatically" through the opened cap. Otherwise the manual should describe the procedure.
 
Last edited:
jacksonkev

jacksonkev

Member III
Christian Williams said:
We're supposed to change the coolant periodically. We're not supposed to mix coolant brands or types.

A 50/50 mixture with water is the usual recommendation. Pure antifreeze is not recommended.
Click to expand...

Thanks Christian,

I'll probably drain and refill to the filler cap (with your advice). Any advice on how to fully drain the coolant? I can't find much online and when I do (because of a lack of engine available engine diagrams and coolant service doesn't show up in the Westerbeke service manual), I'm having difficulty understanding where theses drain plugs live.

Cheers
 
woolamaloo

woolamaloo

Member III
I’ll take a crack at #7.
A couple years ago, I got a late start on a cruise due to a non-starting engine. I found the problem was caused by a short in the starting circuit behind my control panel. I wasn’t confident enough to be sure that was the only problem and I paid a mechanic I trusted $300 to replace the wire, install a fuse and check the rest of the wiring. He commented on the “melty” look of the trailer plugs but everything worked out okay for the rest of that year. That winter I found this Compass Marine page. My trailer plugs looked almost as bad as the examples he shows. Unfortunately, I didn’t take any pictures of mine. The corroboration between my mechanic and the Compass Marine web page made decide to do the upgrade.

Here’s the old panel after it was removed - dead spiders and all.
attachment.php


Over the following winter, I had the same mechanic replace the panel and replace ALL the wiring between the engine and the panel. I also had the starter and alternator reconditioned and a new fuel tank sensor and gauge installed (and a few other smaller things). Total bill was about $2,700. He charged $745 for the new panel. He didn’t break out the hours just for that repair but the whole job I had him do totaled 11.5 hours. Here’s the newly installed panel.
attachment.php

I’m delighted with the upgrade.
 

Attachments

  • removed-panel.jpg
    removed-panel.jpg
    92.8 KB · Views: 389
  • new-panel.jpg
    new-panel.jpg
    59.4 KB · Views: 376
B

bolbmw

Member III
I also have an '81 30+ so congrats on a great boat, take care of her and she'll take care of you.


With any new motor, I apply the same philosophy - change every fluid. You don't know when they we're last done, so just do it and it will get you familiar with that particular motor (and you may find other issues while you're in there too, so you can address them ahead of time.) Coolant change is a bit of a PITA if you have a lot of accessories. My 30+ has a hot water tank and also a radex heater, so I have a lot of coolant in hoses that are below the drain petcock. I flushed the system several times to get rid of all the coolant, and then filled with the proper mix. Pro Tip - buy premix. My boat has an additional custom coolant reservoir added, and a overflow reservoir as well. Good upgrades if you're looking to make a change. (I can see at a glance that there is coolant in the system by looking at the overflow.) Also helps immensely with burping the system.


I wouldn't worry about the oil, you should be replacing this regularly and depending on hours.


I use a 1420 or 3L420 belt on my 5416. Fits perfect for mine. Shorter would work too.


Your fuel filter on the motor is a 299381(Wix 51348 or Bosch 72150 work too.) Easy to get off. Have something to catch the fuel that will leak. Whatever is on the bulkhead was probably added on. I have a generic fuel/water separator that takes sierra filters. Changing any of the filters will require you to bleed the system. Bleed the system and bleed it well at every bleed point, but you shouldn't have to bleed the injectors. There are two main bleed valves on the motor, one near the high pressure pump and one near the fuel filter. Bleed both, possibly repeatedly. Air in the system will cause either the motor to not start or, stall when a air bubble breaks loose (potentially at the worst possible time, like when leaving by the breakwater.) It's easy to do, just don't skip steps.


Transmission should be easy, I don't recall if there is a drain plug. I use an extractor.


The heat exchanger zinc is P/N 301069, I use Canada Metal CME00's. You can see the zinc fitting on the heat exchanger, unscrew the old one and put in the new. There might not be any zinc left (or it may have broken off, and be rattling around in the heat exchanger.) If the heat exchanger has never been rebuilt or replaced, I'd put that on your list. These zincs get consumed quickly (high temperature and constant salt water exposure) but they're cheap and easy to replace.


There are a number of guides on removing or bypassing the ammeters and trailer plugs, common problem on pretty much every boat from the era. Mine has been completely rewired and replaced, nothing stock remains. I'd recommend rebuilding or replacing the alternator if it hasn't, as well as upgrading the charging circuits (thicker leads for the alternator.) Diesel's are pretty simple electrically, you can DIY if you've got the time.

I put a lot of time and effort into my 5416, which has 1500 hours on it and still runs like new (or better.) A lot of that was simple maintenance, replacing any worn parts (injectors get old, glow plugs get old, starters get old... you get my point.)
 
jacksonkev

jacksonkev

Member III
bolbmw said:
I also have an '81 30+ so congrats on a great boat, take care of her and she'll take care of you.


With any new motor, I apply the same philosophy - change every fluid. You don't know when they we're last done, so just do it and it will get you familiar with that particular motor (and you may find other issues while you're in there too, so you can address them ahead of time.) Coolant change is a bit of a PITA if you have a lot of accessories. My 30+ has a hot water tank and also a radex heater, so I have a lot of coolant in hoses that are below the drain petcock. I flushed the system several times to get rid of all the coolant, and then filled with the proper mix. Pro Tip - buy premix. My boat has an additional custom coolant reservoir added, and a overflow reservoir as well. Good upgrades if you're looking to make a change. (I can see at a glance that there is coolant in the system by looking at the overflow.) Also helps immensely with burping the system.


I wouldn't worry about the oil, you should be replacing this regularly and depending on hours.


I use a 1420 or 3L420 belt on my 5416. Fits perfect for mine. Shorter would work too.


Your fuel filter on the motor is a 299381(Wix 51348 or Bosch 72150 work too.) Easy to get off. Have something to catch the fuel that will leak. Whatever is on the bulkhead was probably added on. I have a generic fuel/water separator that takes sierra filters. Changing any of the filters will require you to bleed the system. Bleed the system and bleed it well at every bleed point, but you shouldn't have to bleed the injectors. There are two main bleed valves on the motor, one near the high pressure pump and one near the fuel filter. Bleed both, possibly repeatedly. Air in the system will cause either the motor to not start or, stall when a air bubble breaks loose (potentially at the worst possible time, like when leaving by the breakwater.) It's easy to do, just don't skip steps.


Transmission should be easy, I don't recall if there is a drain plug. I use an extractor.


The heat exchanger zinc is P/N 301069, I use Canada Metal CME00's. You can see the zinc fitting on the heat exchanger, unscrew the old one and put in the new. There might not be any zinc left (or it may have broken off, and be rattling around in the heat exchanger.) If the heat exchanger has never been rebuilt or replaced, I'd put that on your list. These zincs get consumed quickly (high temperature and constant salt water exposure) but they're cheap and easy to replace.


There are a number of guides on removing or bypassing the ammeters and trailer plugs, common problem on pretty much every boat from the era. Mine has been completely rewired and replaced, nothing stock remains. I'd recommend rebuilding or replacing the alternator if it hasn't, as well as upgrading the charging circuits (thicker leads for the alternator.) Diesel's are pretty simple electrically, you can DIY if you've got the time.

I put a lot of time and effort into my 5416, which has 1500 hours on it and still runs like new (or better.) A lot of that was simple maintenance, replacing any worn parts (injectors get old, glow plugs get old, starters get old... you get my point.)
Click to expand...

Thanks, I love the boat thus far. I'm trying to do a lot in a little time (as time is always the issue). I'll tackle the heat exchanger zinc, fuel filters (bleeding) and transmission fluid next. The belt and the coolant can probably wait a bit. The PO pulled the water heater out...so, access shouldn't be that bad but I'm still not that confident that I know where to find the drain valves. The electrical will likely be a $ winter project.
 
markvone

markvone

Sustaining Member
Catalina 36 'REALITY CHECK' website has good info and pictures all in one place

Here is a nice website by a Catalina 36 owner that has lots of pictures and descriptions of maintenance and upgrades to a Universal M25 diesel. I read through this to get familiar with my Universal 5424 diesel before I spent part of the first winter doing most of the things on your list.

http://realitycheck.me/maintenance.htm
 
D

Don Smith

Member II
Mixing crankcase oils

1. My answer to this question, FWIW.

I know very little about oil but I have a friend who was in the oil business his whole working life, is a chemical engineer and an avid sail boater (Cal 36 rigged for racing). He says that you should never mix different brands of oils because different manufacturers add slightly different additives and mixtures of additives during the refining process. He said that when changing oil be sure to keep some of the brand you used on board for when you need to add oil between oil changes.

Captain Don
Gitana E26
 
jacksonkev

jacksonkev

Member III
Don Smith said:
1. My answer to this question, FWIW.

I know very little about oil but I have a friend who was in the oil business his whole working life, is a chemical engineer and an avid sail boater (Cal 36 rigged for racing). He says that you should never mix different brands of oils because different manufacturers add slightly different additives and mixtures of additives during the refining process. He said that when changing oil be sure to keep some of the brand you used on board for when you need to add oil between oil changes.

Captain Don
Gitana E26
Click to expand...

Thanks. That's interesting...I may do another quick oil change if I'm going to use my extractor to drain the transmission fluid anyway. Can't hurt. I wonder if there's a better way to get more of the 3.7 quarts of oil out without removing the plug in the pan? There is no way that I have the proper access.
 
Rocinante33

Rocinante33

Contributing Partner
1. You did use diesel oil (Rotella, for example), right? I think the single viscosity oil (30 wt) is what is recommended for these engines, but others may disagree.
2. The overflow catches the extra coolant which expands as it heats up then gives it back as it cools off later
3. If your boat has had the alternator bracket upgrade (hopefully so), then it probably needs a slightly longer belt than the original. My M-25 uses a Gates 3VX400. Post pictures of you engine.
4. You can figure out a lot just by following the lines. Where do they lead to? From Filter back to fuel pump? From there, back to the fuel tank?
5. To drain the tranny, cut down a milk carton and slide it underneath. There is a drain plug on the underside which can be removed to drain.
6. Close the raw water through hull before changing the zinc. Locate the heat exchanger on the back side of the engine. The zinc is under a brass plug on the bottom corner of the heat exchanger.
The replacement zinc can be purchased at any chandlery like West Marine. Use a hacksaw to cut off 1/2" before installation. Screw the zinc into the brass plug. Do not use any sealant.
 
jacksonkev

jacksonkev

Member III
Keith Parcells said:
1. You did use diesel oil (Rotella, for example), right? I think the single viscosity oil (30 wt) is what is recommended for these engines, but others may disagree.
2. The overflow catches the extra coolant which expands as it heats up then gives it back as it cools off later
3. If your boat has had the alternator bracket upgrade (hopefully so), then it probably needs a slightly longer belt than the original. My M-25 uses a Gates 3VX400. Post pictures of you engine.
4. You can figure out a lot just by following the lines. Where do they lead to? From Filter back to fuel pump? From there, back to the fuel tank?
5. To drain the tranny, cut down a milk carton and slide it underneath. There is a drain plug on the underside which can be removed to drain.
6. Close the raw water through hull before changing the zinc. Locate the heat exchanger on the back side of the engine. The zinc is under a brass plug on the bottom corner of the heat exchanger.
The replacement zinc can be purchased at any chandlery like West Marine. Use a hacksaw to cut off 1/2" before installation. Screw the zinc into the brass plug. Do not use any sealant.
Click to expand...


Thank you! Great and concise info. I chose Rotella T5 10W40 when I did my first change a few months ago. The owner's manual recommends using either "SAE 30 HD (CD) or 10W40 heavy duty diesel lubricating oil". I read somewhere that 10W40 was better for the engine on cold start days. I sail year round in the 50's and 60's in the SF Bay. So, I thought I'd pick that one. Since then, I've read that oils with viscosity spreads of 30 contain the most additives (which can potentially cause damage to the rings). Any opinions here would be appreciated. I thought about posting a separate thread regarding this before I do my next oil change.
 
Christian Williams

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
#8.

I don't think these engines are designed for a periodic check by a professional. They're workhorses, with owner maintenance presumed.

So your list seems complete, or at least as good or better than mine, anyhow.

Consult occasionally the temperature gauge, since a failure of raw water, coolant or oil can destroy an engine (try not to become enslaved by the gauge).

Our senior engines do sometimes need to have the fuel injectors tested and fixed--but not unless there are symptoms.

There is "no such thing as a 'tune-up' for a diesel engine." The old phrase just means no points, plugs and so on, like an old gasoline car.

Note also that our fuel tank, fuel lines and primary filter assembles are also likely pushing past 30 years old. Eventually, they'll need to be replaced.
 
jacksonkev

jacksonkev

Member III
Christian Williams said:
#8.

I don't think these engines are designed for a periodic check by a professional. They're workhorses, with owner maintenance presumed.

So your list seems complete, or at least as good or better than mine, anyhow.

Consult occasionally the temperature gauge, since a failure of raw water, coolant or oil can destroy an engine (try not to become enslaved by the gauge).

Our senior engines do sometimes need to have the fuel injectors tested and fixed--but not unless there are symptoms.

There is "no such thing as a 'tune-up' for a diesel engine." The old phrase just means no points, plugs and so on, like an old gasoline car.

Note also that our fuel tank, fuel lines and primary filter assembles are also likely pushing past 30 years old. Eventually, they'll need to be replaced.
Click to expand...

Make sense to me and I'm happy to hear it. The only person I fear more than my dentist is a marine mechanic.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top