wheelerwbrian
Member III
This will give me my mission at the Annapolis Sail Boat Show this October. I'll have to go on Friday or Monday so they'll take the time to talk to me.
Replacing Instruments?
- Thread starter wheelerwbrian
- Start date
Maine Sail
Member III
Raymarine:
Yes RM is holding back some ST-60 stuff for parts and some is being bundled up and sent to distributors who will get rid of it. I have recently had to call and beg one of my inside contacts to get me an ST-6002 control head, he did but they are all but gone except for repairs. The transition period away from the ST-60 and ST legacy system will be painful but the new i70 stuff is quite nice. Raymarine is not fading out of the market and Flir is very committed to this brand as well as Extech, their other company. Things are bustling in Nashua and they are hiring and growing. Price wise and product line wise they still really have the most comprehensive line up. Their tech support has rebounded and is now as good as I've seen it in the last 15 or so years.
system did it again.
Tack-Tick:
I have stories about this stuff that would keep you up at night and give you nightmares. Suffice it to say Ray/Flir bought this line for the wireless wind technology and it will eventually be rolled into the Ray product line as an offering. For now they need to figure out how to make it work, if they can. The only instrument product I can think of that I would consider poor reliability.
Garmin:
No one has mentioned Garmin for instruments but they are one of my favorites and are price competitive. They are also now doing autopilots. I would urge anyone considering instruments to consider Garmin.
Furuno:
Like always Furuno makes good equipment but I don't feel the spread in quality is there as it was 10 or 12 years ago between brands. I find them tougher to get, stock is tough, only one real "local" dealer in my area and I find them to be quite expensive. I mostly install it for fisherman because they do have the best fish finder technology. I have a sportfishing boat out of Newcastle NH that has 30k in Furuno gear and a Flir infrared system. It has been great, when it works.... The last time we went out at 3:30 am in the morning heading 80nm offshore the GPS had us going 720 knots.
Rebooted and all was fine then the GPS went fluky again. Wound up using a hand held Garmin for the GPS. Luckily the fishfinder was not on the fritz.. Their radars are excellent but most of my customers complain about the user interface. I've only done two packages with their instruments. They worked fine.. I will be curious to see if the current generation of Furuno lasts as long as the stuff from 10 or 20 years ago.Simrad:
They also make instruments but I am not enamored with their tech support. I do like their autopilots and the newer plotters are nice. Reliability is about the same as the others, decent. I am still not entirely sold on the digital radar but have not yet installed one of the brand new ones where longer range targeting is supposed to be better. Close in it is excellent.
B&G:
Racers think it is cool. Very, very pricey, most likely because racers have deep pockets and it is a small niche. Small market = less volume = higher price. Again reliability about the same as all others. If you race B&G caters to that market.
Sadly today I don't know if any company edges out another in terms of reliability and I honestly don't feel any one brand is better or more reliable than another.. Ray tends to get a bad rap on reliability but when you own 60+% of the market 60+% of the problems will be yours too. Garmin has great stuff but I am disappointed in their current level of tech support for the marine division. My customers tend to love Garmin more than any other system. It's like they are in a cult. When I install Garmin products I don't even leave the manuals on the Nav desk nor do the full write up on how to use the system. I never get a call such as a "How do I.....?" with a Garmin install. With EVERY OTHER BRAND the phone rings despite the manuals being left out, a full hour long walk through etc. etc.. Sometimes the menu systems drive me crazy with how un user friendly they are.. I find Garmin like Apple, Raymarine like a Windows and Furuno like DOS when it comes to complexity for the end user (based on customer feedback).....
If investing in ANY new electronics try to limit yourself to only those products which are N2K devices including speed, depth, plotters etc.. N2K is far more user & DIY friendly than 0183 that it is not even funny. Plug it in and it just works.
Ray, Garmin, Simrad, Furuno, B&G etc. etc. all good it comes down to how much you want to pay, do you want a matched "system" and what you want for support.
I know a lot of people bad mouth Ray autopilots but two weeks ago I replaced a fluxgate, that the wires had chafed through on due to rough seas. This was not the fault of Raymarine. This is an old "Autohelm" series from the mid 90's. The boat had just recently passed 70,000 nm, done a circumnavigation, four Atlantic crossings, sailed in the roaring 40's and rounded Cape Horn. She has also done high latitudes and has been in near constant use since installed. The installation was text book and exemplary. These things count and when done right they matter. The original drive, computer, RPS and display are still operating perfectly. When I asked how much they used the wind vane compared to the AP the response was, "it's pretty dusty, our pal auto is a good friend.."... Two other installers who looked at it said "yeah this stuff is garbage and you need to replace it." The owner politely declined their services knowing just how good it had been.
One other point is when buying electronics please consider the West Marine extended warranty program. I recently had a customer who's plotter froze on the boot screen. No amount of secret button presses would un-freeze it. Walked into WM and five minutes later walked out the door with a brand new plotter. No shipping it away during the short season and waiting three + weeks they just handed over a brand new one. I know WM has a bad rap but for marine electronics this is a great program and not all that costly considering the environment we place these devices into. They will also price match so you know you're getting a good deal and getting an extended warranty.
I don't know of any other vendor offering a program that even comes close to this for marine electronics. Personally I think they are crazy.....
Last edited:
Ipad
In an aviation application we have been using them in the cockpit for several years. They replace the charts and approach plates that consume a huge area and lots of space. What an enhancement to safety. It will be in other application very soon.
Slick470
Member III
I'm very curious on new electronics as well. Our boat has old Autohelm ST-50s. The depth is the only one that works consistently anymore. The speed is dead and the wind is iffy. I bought a used ST60 speed as a replacement, but I really don't want to cut a bigger hole to install it until I know what the next set of instruments ends up being.
I like a lot of the things about the Tacktick product in theory, but as Maine Sail said, there a a lot of horror stories about it not working right. I'm also questionable about spending that much money on something that has a rechargable battery.
Nexus and NKE have interesting product lines as well. Anyone have experience with those?
From a layout perspective, we have a tiller boat so, I really like the idea of getting the displays out of the cockpit and up on the mast. They are very prone to damage in the cockpit and someone is always sitting in front of one. Our ST50 speed looks like it's death was elbow or knee related. So, larger multi displays on the mast with a remote would be ideal, with a smaller multi at the nav station. I'd also like to include a networked tiller pilot, but not sure who's is best for reliabilty.
I like a lot of the things about the Tacktick product in theory, but as Maine Sail said, there a a lot of horror stories about it not working right. I'm also questionable about spending that much money on something that has a rechargable battery.
Nexus and NKE have interesting product lines as well. Anyone have experience with those?
From a layout perspective, we have a tiller boat so, I really like the idea of getting the displays out of the cockpit and up on the mast. They are very prone to damage in the cockpit and someone is always sitting in front of one. Our ST50 speed looks like it's death was elbow or knee related. So, larger multi displays on the mast with a remote would be ideal, with a smaller multi at the nav station. I'd also like to include a networked tiller pilot, but not sure who's is best for reliabilty.
mherrcat
Contributing Partner
I have a Tacktick wind instrument. Since the anemometer bearing froze up and I had to replace the entire masthead assembly (bad original design - but got a discount on the new assembly) I have noticed that when I turn on the unit sometimes it takes a few moments for the signal to lock up. Once it is locked I have never noticed it stop working while sailing. There must be a range these things are limited to, although I don't know what that is. Mine is on my E30+ so we're talking approximately a 40 foot distance in this case.
Bob Brigham
Member II
My TackTick on my E 28 is off by quite a bit...have even had it professionally reset and it is still off on wind direction by several degrees.
wheelerwbrian
Member III
Has anyone considered one of the ultrasonic wind transducers to replace the seemingly old tech spinning anemometer and directional paddle? It seems that it would contribute to reliability, not to mention removing a place for the birds to perch.
brianb00
O - 34
I have considered it, but the cost is prohibitive. I have a B&G wind sensor at the mast head. It has lasted 13 years, birds and all. THat said, I think a replacement B&G wind sensor may cost more than the Windmar ultrasonic sensor !
The ultrasonic sensors that have the rate gyro's inside compensate for mast movement in estimation of apparent wind angle. They are apparently very accurate and immune to inaccuracy due to mast motion. They have become the sensor of choice for advanced autopilots that must keep accurate wind angles to avoid round down's and accidental jybes. So if your planning to blast off around the planet to navigate the great Capes and set a world record, go for it.
BB