Radar mount location (can of worms question)

[juneausailin]

Hi all, sure there are other threads about this... I have to mount a radome (4kw, 24" Raymarine)... am looking to go from san diego to hawaii this summer... so, the stern mount vs mast mount and stationary vs self leveling questions arise...

Mast mount for the extra range on the horizon makes sense for blue water work I think... Then I guess the simplicity of a stationary mast mount has benefits... Any specific advice from other E38 owners?

Thank you,
David

 

[rwthomas1]

I replaced an old Furuno dome with a new dome on the mast a few years back. I struggled with the mast mount location. I don't care for the headsail rubbing on the darned thing every tack. Yes, the sail is reinforced for it but it does leave a light blue scuff on the material. Backstay/gimballed mounts are nice, but they are expensive and another moving part. The argument is a fixed mount degrades in performance as heel increases. I've not ever noticed any real problems in use however. The mast mount gives plenty of range is very simple and cheap compared to any gimbaled mount, backstay mount, etc. A fixed pole on the transom works for cheap money, but again, I think any extra crap on the stern makes an E38 look terrible. For example, I want davits but cannot bring myself to ugly up those lines Mr. King worked so hard for. But thats just me.... RT

 

[Sven]

Hi David,

When are you planning to do the crossing ? We're possibly going all the way out as part of our cruise up to Vancouver Island.

We asked a similar question before having our Simrad radar installed. We didn't want to clutter the stern up even more so we knew we'd want it on the mast but we didn't know what kind of mount. We got a couple of responses indicating that the pivoting mounts gave much better coverage when heeled. Then we got more replies stating that we were asking for trouble by adding something articulated that could break and that the heel would not impact visibility forward or aft and you'd still see what was abeam every now and then due to wave action.

I'm still not sure that the self-leveling mounts are that prone to problems (didn't get a single report) but we went for KISS.





-Sven

 

[bfaatz]

Backstay Mount

We've had a Faruno dome mounted on a self-leveling Questus backstay pole for 14 years without problems. An extension pole lifts the dome to about 15 feet above the water. It works great up to its 16-mile range.

 

[juneausailin]

Gracias

Thanks all for the ideas and feedback... Kinda leaning towards the KISS method and picking my poison at this point... one order of sail chaffe and top heaviness please!! Translation: Fixed mast mount with chaffe guard on the dome..

Sven, looking to shove off the first of May which is about as good as it gets according to Mr. Cornell. Hang in Hawaii for a handfull of days then turn north towards Kodiak and eventualy get back to Juneau... When are you thinking about taking off? Final destination Vancouver, via inside passage?

Hi David,

When are you planning to do the crossing ? We're possibly going all the way out as part of our cruise up to Vancouver Island.

We asked a similar question before having our Simrad radar installed. We didn't want to clutter the stern up even more so we knew we'd want it on the mast but we didn't know what kind of mount. We got a couple of responses indicating that the pivoting mounts gave much better coverage when heeled. Then we got more replies stating that we were asking for trouble by adding something articulated that could break and that the heel would not impact visibility forward or aft and you'd still see what was abeam every now and then due to wave action.

I'm still not sure that the self-leveling mounts are that prone to problems (didn't get a single report) but we went for KISS.

View attachment 10573



-Sven

 

[Sven]

Sven, looking to shove off the first of May which is about as good as it gets according to Mr. Cornell. Hang in Hawaii for a handfull of days then turn north towards Kodiak and eventualy get back to Juneau... When are you thinking about taking off? Final destination Vancouver, via inside passage?

A rough feasibility study would have us shove off no later than June 9th: http://www.grenander.com/Senta_II/Blog/Entries/2012/2/8_Can_we_get_to_Vancouver_Island_(Sven).html . If we are ready with the Cape Horn and our coastal shakedowns we'd leave weeks or a month earlier.

Once the Technomad Flotilla has circumnavigated Vancouver Island, in a very loosely organized counterclockwise direction, we'll start heading south again. We want to pass through the hurricane region next winter and then on South.



-Sven

 

[Loren Beach]

A NW information source

If planning a trip around Vancouver Island, it might be very helpful to drop your questions into a NW sailing/cruising discussion board, on line.
The Cascadia group has a lot of sailors and a few trawler owners that spend summers in and around that area.

Main web site: http://sailcascadia.org/

The page for joining the bbs:
http://sailcascadia.org/how-to-join.html

It's a moderated site/list. Similar to our EY site, there is no advertising and the server costs are (easliy) raised with an occasional short fund drive.

Have a Safe Trip!

Loren

 

[Sven]

If planning a trip around Vancouver Island, it might be very helpful to drop your questions into a NW sailing/cruising discussion board, on line.

Thanks Loren, I just passed that recommendation on to our fellow travelers



-Sven

 

[juneausailin]

Nice...

Looks like you might pass near the pacific high or is that further west? Also, I see you pulled the forward water tank, how many gallons will you carry now? I am looking to get a water maker soon, am thinking about plumbing it in directly with the water tanks... I guess you will have a water maker onboard? Of course all the Tsunami debris is rolling around north of Hawaii now in adition to the great garbage patch.... We have guvment folks already planning about how to deal with debris as it hits up here in AK..



http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2...i-debris-presentation-made-to-hawaii-council/

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2012/02/debris_from_japan_tsunami_head.html

A rough feasibility study would have us shove off no later than June 9th: http://www.grenander.com/Senta_II/Blog/Entries/2012/2/8_Can_we_get_to_Vancouver_Island_(Sven).html . If we are ready with the Cape Horn and our coastal shakedowns we'd leave weeks or a month earlier.

Once the Technomad Flotilla has circumnavigated Vancouver Island, in a very loosely organized counterclockwise direction, we'll start heading south again. We want to pass through the hurricane region next winter and then on South.



-Sven

 

[Sven]

Thanks Loren, I just passed that recommendation on to our fellow travelers



-Sven

I tried signing up but the Captcha is broken. It keeps refusing the letters/numbers it displays. I e-mailed the admin after 5 unsuccessful re-tries.

Steve (our instigator) says it is a good resource so I'll hope for some answer to the sign-up problem.

Appreciate the lead.



-Sven

 

[Sven]

David,

Looks like you might pass near the pacific high or is that further west?

We'll adjust course as needed. That plot was based on the GRIB files a while back.

Also, I see you pulled the forward water tank, how many gallons will you carry now?

We carry 80 gallons in the main tank. We'll also carry enough bottled water to last us at least 5 weeks for each crossing. We refill our plastic bottled water bottles many many times when we have good tap water. We also use some of those carbon-filtered Brita drinking bottles just to make the water more palatable (they could not cope with the overwhelming chlorine at O'Hare Airport !).

I am looking to get a water maker soon, am thinking about plumbing it in directly with the water tanks... I guess you will have a water maker onboard?

We have the water maker but have not yet installed it. We bought when Defender was charging the same for the 160 and 80 GPD units, just have to fit that big piston and plumb it all. We were actually looking for the 40 GPD unit at the time but the price difference wasn't worth it. We'll probably run it for an hour or two per day every day or so.

All the references I've read suggest not plumbing direct as a cracked membrane or other problem could cause you to destroy your whole water supply.

We don't want to have to pickle our membrane so we also hope to plumb a feed line from the fresh water tank to the water maker just so we can run it every few days even when in oily (membrane-destroying) harbor waters.


-Sven

 

[Loren Beach]

Stern Pole versions

We have very few boats in our club with mast mounts. Most sailors seem to prefer the easier install and servicing (by far) with the pole mount. Quite a number of members go north to Barkley Sound every summer, and we presently have several members cruising Mexico. There might be one or three boats with a self-leveling mount, but it's a very small number.

Then there's the advantage of mounting other stuff on that pole (besides the obvious solar panel or two).
I have some pics from today. Note that the E-32-3 also has a correctly-oriented reflector above the radar antenna.
I moved the stern light up to get rid of light reflecting back into our eyes at night. I also put the boathook on our pole, ready for use when needed.
Other antennas for VHF (spare) and GPS can go there as well.

I have watched the wiring being run for a mast mount, and it was a difficult job on the best day.

Anyhow, esthectics is often just as important as function, and werever it's mounted, radar is wonderful to have along. Especially when cruising the Pacific NW during the month of "Fogust".........


Cheers,
Loren

 

[juneausailin]

Fuel

Sven, curious.... how much fuel are you going to take with you for the trip over to Hawaii? I see you have a 39B, can't remember how much tankage is on that model.. I have the E38 which has about 56 or so.... I suppose I could load up some jerry jugs but the wind should be pretty favorable in may and june I think...

thoughts?

Thank you,
David

 

[juneausailin]

thanks for the pix

Thanks for the pix Loren.. those are some good ideas. What brand is pole mount you have there in the bottom pix? One of them looked like some standard aluminum of some sort?

 

[Loren Beach]

Thanks for the pix Loren.. those are some good ideas. What brand is pole mount you have there in the bottom pix? One of them looked like some standard aluminum of some sort?

The last photos in the series are of an Ericson 38-200. Maybe the owner will log in with some info. I believe that it's socketed into a hidden tube and you can also see the double braces to the stern rail.
The first pole is my boat, and it's a custom alum pole that sockets into a frp tube inside the transom.
The second picture is an Ericson 32-3 with a Garhauer pole - three way mount with two ss brace poles plus the base mounted externally on the transom.

Loren

 

[Sven]

Hi David,

Sven, curious.... how much fuel are you going to take with you for the trip over to Hawaii? I see you have a 39B, can't remember how much tankage is on that model.. I have the E38 which has about 56 or so.... I suppose I could load up some jerry jugs but the wind should be pretty favorable in may and june I think...

We carry 80 gallons per the spec sheet. We'll probably carry a 5 or 10 gallon stowed jerry can just in case we are surprised by no fuel and need desperation back-up. We will not lash cans to the lifelines, we've read too many horror stories about breaking waves taking the cans and lifelines.

You are right about the prevailing winds.



-Sven

 

[Dave N]

Questus

We have the pole/backstay mounted type. Always level and out of the way. It is somewhat of a pain when taking down the mast for winter storage. There are pics of ours in my "photo album". Note the angle of it relative to the horizon......

 

[juneausailin]

oscillation

So with the questus do you have any issues with the radome oscillating in chop, pumping or the likes?

We have the pole/backstay mounted type. Always level and out of the way. It is somewhat of a pain when taking down the mast for winter storage. There are pics of ours in my "photo album". Note the angle of it relative to the horizon......

 

[Sven]

We have very few boats in our club with mast mounts. Most sailors seem to prefer the easier install and servicing (by far) with the pole mount.

Maybe it is a regional difference ? I did a spot-check during our walk around the marina this morning. I was only counting during the last part, as we were passing by the LA Yacht Club boats. There were 13 mast mounts to one pole mount. Jeff Asbury has a pole mount but his is one of the few I've noticed around here.

If it is regional I wonder what drives it ?

BTW, during the walk we also saw an odd sight ... a Vessel Assist boat sunk at the dock !



-Sven

 

[Loren Beach]

Maybe it is a regional difference ? I did a spot-check during our walk around the marina this morning. I was only counting during the last part, as we were passing by the LA Yacht Club boats. There were 13 mast mounts to one pole mount. Jeff Asbury has a pole mount but his is one of the few I've noticed around here.

If it is regional I wonder what drives it ?
-Sven

Haven't a clue (a clew?)... but would hazard a guess that this might be related to our YC being a "blue collar" DIY kinda place. Majority of members do their own maintenance and installs.
The cable routing and need to work up on the spar (or lower it down with attendant cost and hassle) probably tends to be more of a paid professional kind of work.
The stern pole scheme is a lot simpler for a DIY installation. And, even then, it's likely that you will spend quite a few hours of quality time upside down back in the lazarette.

I know that if I had to pay someone else $75 to $100 per hour to install the radar on our boat, the labor would be more than I paid for the radar! Yikes....

Just a guess, but that's .02 worth.......


LB

ps: all three of the radomes pictured in reply 12 were owner-installed.