ted_reshetiloff
Contributing Partner
Anyone have experience with this stuff? I am going to be spraying 2 coats this year and then polishing. A friend used it last year on his race boat with good luck but maybe others have something to add?
Pettit Vivid Bottom Paint
- Thread starter ted_reshetiloff
- Start date
Geoff Johnson
Fellow Ericson Owner
The most recent issue of Practical Sailor has a bottom paint report which recommends Vivid (Good+ in FL and Fair- in CT) . It also recommends, for ablative paints, West Marine CPP more highly than the Micron CSC I have been using. The WM paint is about 40% cheaper so I think I'll switch.
NateHanson
Sustaining Member
I think that CPP was in their sale flyer this week too. I wanna say it was $100! :eek: (hope i'm remembering that right, and not just getting people excited)
Rob Hessenius
Inactive Member
West Marine CPP
West Marine has CPP on sale thru the 19th for $79.99. Rob
West Marine has CPP on sale thru the 19th for $79.99. Rob
JMS
Member II
Links to Petit Vivid Info...
There has been a ton of discussion on Sailing Anarchy about Vivid. Here are links to two threads ->
http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10795&hl=
and
http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=17927&hl=
Use the SA forum search function for many more.
There has been a ton of discussion on Sailing Anarchy about Vivid. Here are links to two threads ->
http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10795&hl=
and
http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=17927&hl=
Use the SA forum search function for many more.
ted_reshetiloff
Contributing Partner
From the reading it sounds pretty good. I will be spraying in a few weeks then polishing to at least 600, hopefully to 1200 but may run out of time... Plus 38 feet is a lot of bottom to polish. Hoping some of my buddies will chip in...
sailingdeacon
Member III
I race my E34 5-6 times a year in brackish waters of NC, but cruise otherwise. Been using Micron Extra ablative, but am considering a harder paint. It seems Vivid is something of a different paint from others: modified Epoxy but yet advertised as a "hard ablative" which is just what I want. http://www.pettitpaint.com/catalog_browse.asp?ictNbr=24
SInce I haul our every 18 months, and clean the bottom every race, I wonder if this is the paint for me. My choices are down to Micron Extra, Trinidad SR and Vivid. WHen I go through the interactive paint selection at Pettie, it comes back either with Vivid or Trinidad Sr depending on a slight change in priorities. Comments?
SInce I haul our every 18 months, and clean the bottom every race, I wonder if this is the paint for me. My choices are down to Micron Extra, Trinidad SR and Vivid. WHen I go through the interactive paint selection at Pettie, it comes back either with Vivid or Trinidad Sr depending on a slight change in priorities. Comments?
Rob Hessenius
Inactive Member
Sailingdeacon
My question to you is; are you interested in Vivid because of the possible color matches? Or in its hard surface? Dollars and cents would drive me to buying Bottomkote ACT or West Marine CPP, both hard ablative at a much lower cost. Micron Extra and SR are multi-season, softer ablative paints. Since you haul 18 months, you really don't need to spend on the multi season paints. Multi season paints tax the lazy in price. 18 months is "A" season. Practical Sailer just finished there tests this month. It came today, but I have not read it as of yet. I do remember Vivid as the winner for the unique color test. It stayed true to applied water in the murky waters. Rob Hessenius
My question to you is; are you interested in Vivid because of the possible color matches? Or in its hard surface? Dollars and cents would drive me to buying Bottomkote ACT or West Marine CPP, both hard ablative at a much lower cost. Micron Extra and SR are multi-season, softer ablative paints. Since you haul 18 months, you really don't need to spend on the multi season paints. Multi season paints tax the lazy in price. 18 months is "A" season. Practical Sailer just finished there tests this month. It came today, but I have not read it as of yet. I do remember Vivid as the winner for the unique color test. It stayed true to applied water in the murky waters. Rob Hessenius
sailingdeacon
Member III
Rob: Color makes no difference at all. Price is secondary. I suppose what I am after is performance cruising - Grin....
According to WM's write-up there are ablatives which are copolymer and there are ablatives which are not copolymer. The latter is "not recommended when you want a super smooth bottom and have a diver maintain it since scrukbbing removes paint and reduces longevity."
CPP is an ablative but not a copolymer - so not the best for speed. West Marines PCA is also an ablative and and is a copolymer - as is Micron Extra which I now use. I am not sure either can be burnished, but apparently better for speed than CPP or other non-copolymers.
Trinidad Sr is a "modified epoxy" and not an ablative. So not too great either for speed or maintenance due to the buildup.
Vivid is a "hard modified epoxy" but is advertised as a "hard ablative" and "Although hard, Vivid will wear away slightly over time keeping a slick surface" This seems to be a different animal. It certainly could be burnished, wears away, and should be good for speed. In fact the Petitt interactive web site picks either Vivid or Trinidad Sr depending on tweaking speed/racing
If we agree with others who say "soft is slow", then the harder the better for speed. If we agree that ablative is better for maintenance/less buildup then ablative is better.
So my question has to do with whether Vivid perhaps is a good all around choice for racing/cruising considering I do not need a multiyear paint. Color is just another plus.
According to WM's write-up there are ablatives which are copolymer and there are ablatives which are not copolymer. The latter is "not recommended when you want a super smooth bottom and have a diver maintain it since scrukbbing removes paint and reduces longevity."
CPP is an ablative but not a copolymer - so not the best for speed. West Marines PCA is also an ablative and and is a copolymer - as is Micron Extra which I now use. I am not sure either can be burnished, but apparently better for speed than CPP or other non-copolymers.
Trinidad Sr is a "modified epoxy" and not an ablative. So not too great either for speed or maintenance due to the buildup.
Vivid is a "hard modified epoxy" but is advertised as a "hard ablative" and "Although hard, Vivid will wear away slightly over time keeping a slick surface" This seems to be a different animal. It certainly could be burnished, wears away, and should be good for speed. In fact the Petitt interactive web site picks either Vivid or Trinidad Sr depending on tweaking speed/racing
If we agree with others who say "soft is slow", then the harder the better for speed. If we agree that ablative is better for maintenance/less buildup then ablative is better.
So my question has to do with whether Vivid perhaps is a good all around choice for racing/cruising considering I do not need a multiyear paint. Color is just another plus.
Rob Hessenius
Inactive Member
Sailingdeacon
Ya- I agree that Vivid could very well be a true comprimise of hard and self polishing. you really got me thinking things over in my head. I do know that folks burnish Vivid. VC-17 is the way to go for speed on fresh water, but fails in salt water. I agree Vivid is your answer. Rob Hessenius
Ya- I agree that Vivid could very well be a true comprimise of hard and self polishing. you really got me thinking things over in my head. I do know that folks burnish Vivid. VC-17 is the way to go for speed on fresh water, but fails in salt water. I agree Vivid is your answer. Rob Hessenius
ted_reshetiloff
Contributing Partner
Used the vivid for this year. Burnished it too. Had a divr on it once a monthand before racing. Held up great. Boat is on the hard and looks like some did wear off from the scrubbing but no where did it wear off completely so it should be easy to sand and reapply without too muchbuild up. I will definately use it again. Next choice would be either Baltoplate or VC Offshore but that stuff is expensive...
sailingdeacon
Member III
I talked to Pettit. Considering my specific needs and requirements (race and cruise, haul our 1.5 to 2 years), they suggested Trinidad Sr, which is known well in my brackish/slimy area to be quite good, as my choice. They suggested also to sand it smooth for performance. Since I haul pretty often and sand it heavily anyway, this may be best for me. Also a respected racer in my area confirmed that choice.
I am convinced that my current micro extra ablative is not the best for racing even though it is best for cruising if one hauls rather often.
Perhaps vivid would be good, but my thinking is to go with Trinidad sr.
An added comment. SInce I haul so frequently I have found that even with Micron extra, I only used one coat with a second coat on leading and trailing edges. But past 1 year or at most 1.5 it really did need painting again.
I am convinced that my current micro extra ablative is not the best for racing even though it is best for cruising if one hauls rather often.
Perhaps vivid would be good, but my thinking is to go with Trinidad sr.
An added comment. SInce I haul so frequently I have found that even with Micron extra, I only used one coat with a second coat on leading and trailing edges. But past 1 year or at most 1.5 it really did need painting again.
Chris Glasspool
Member II
I will be doing my own bottom job once the weather agrees. It is my first time doing this, so I read your posts with some interest. It sounds like people have little hesitiation with changing brands - types of paint, but my research shows this to be a major pain, with the recomendation by the manufacturer to sand down to the gel coat, or use a tie coat primer, which limits the type of paint one can use. Many people seem to suggest that if you sand down to the gel coat then you probably have abraded the bottom to the point that one should proceed with the application of a new barrier coat first. Am I correct here?
My own boat has flaking paint and a rough surface, and I am guessing by the look and feel that it had an ablative paint when in a slip, then a hard paint put over which didn't hold well. I would really like to sand down and do a VC-17 over a new barrier, but that seems like a lot of work compared to just sanding smooth and aplying a tie coat primer and apropriate paint over this. Which would seem much faster and cheaper. My E25 was aquired this fall and part of the consideration here is that I will need to jack the trailer up, support boat, etc, i.e., mucho labor. Any ideas? Thanks, Chris
My own boat has flaking paint and a rough surface, and I am guessing by the look and feel that it had an ablative paint when in a slip, then a hard paint put over which didn't hold well. I would really like to sand down and do a VC-17 over a new barrier, but that seems like a lot of work compared to just sanding smooth and aplying a tie coat primer and apropriate paint over this. Which would seem much faster and cheaper. My E25 was aquired this fall and part of the consideration here is that I will need to jack the trailer up, support boat, etc, i.e., mucho labor. Any ideas? Thanks, Chris
ted_reshetiloff
Contributing Partner
I would take the time now to do it right if you plan to keep the boat for a while. Strip off all the old paint. I did it by hand on my 38 and it was a beast. Your 25 should not be that bad. I used a very sharp 1" scraper and ground off the tips to prevent gouging. After the scraping I sanded with 80 grit DA sander. This took it to barrier coat. I then applied 3 coats of paint. Now yearly or every other year sanding a painting will not bad big job. Buildup of paint is generally the problem I find. People dont do a good enough job sanding before they add a new coat. The paint over years gets so thick it becomes unstable and ends up flaking off in places. Even if you dont change brands you can have this problem. So my advice is strip it all off now at least to barrier coat if you have one. If the boat is dry enough apply a barrier coat then 2 coats of good paint. 25 footer should not be that bad of a job. Maybe you can get it chucked on jackstands for a weekend to do the work?
Chris Glasspool
Member II
interesting links
Here is a nice descripition of a major overhaul including a bottoms job: http://www.javelin38.com/RemovingExtPaint.html Also my surveyor was adament that my rudder is trash; I contacted Foss, and got a quote for over 3 thousand dollars for replacement, though Foss felt that most of these jobs could be saved by simply drying out, and doing a repair job. Alternate to this is building a new one yourself and possibly doing it better than the original. Here is a nice link for this descripition, but I would weight the rudder to make it nuetral boyancy, and glass the trailing edge to make it very thin: http://www.paceship.org/how_to/rudder.asp
Here is a nice descripition of a major overhaul including a bottoms job: http://www.javelin38.com/RemovingExtPaint.html Also my surveyor was adament that my rudder is trash; I contacted Foss, and got a quote for over 3 thousand dollars for replacement, though Foss felt that most of these jobs could be saved by simply drying out, and doing a repair job. Alternate to this is building a new one yourself and possibly doing it better than the original. Here is a nice link for this descripition, but I would weight the rudder to make it nuetral boyancy, and glass the trailing edge to make it very thin: http://www.paceship.org/how_to/rudder.asp