New very strange creaking noise

[Frank Langer]

I am pretty meticulous in the care and maintenance of our 1984 E30+ boat. As I was walking forward on the starboard side I noticed a new creaking noise about two feet forward of the shrouds right where the deck joins with the vertical section of the cabin top. It sounds like two pieces of wood rubbing against each other. The noise does not occur if I step closer to the toe rail. The deck does not feel soft or spongy and there are no deck fittings in that area for moisture to get in, so I don't think it's that.

I can also create the same sound in the same location by steping hard on the cabin top just forward of the mast, so I think by doing that I am stressing the same section that is making the noise.

I thought it might be the interior trim in the V-berth just forward of the hanging locker, as there are several pieces that come together at that point. I tried spraying in the joints of these pieces with McLube dry lubricant, but that didn't make any difference.

I also thought that maybe the rig was a bit out of tune perhaps putting stresses in new areas of the deck, so I did a complete re-tune from scratch, again without any impact on that noise. I think the tuning is pretty good, as I ended up very close to the same results from my last tune, without comparing until I was finished. The cap shrouds feel quite tight and are at about 15%, lower shrouds just very slightly less and intermediates very slightly less than that. The mast track looks straight. The tie rods had been adjusted last time before I tuned the rig and have not been touched/changed since then, so should still be correct.

There is no noticeable change in the doors of the hanging locker or in the way the head door closes (ie. it's not binding or showing any sign of movement). The area under the mast step on top of the compression post had been professionally reinforced with a steel plate several years ago by a previous owner and has been stable ever since, as far as I can tell. There is no sign of anything having changed, except that there is a new noise where there was none a month ago. I am very sure that the noise is new, as I know this boat very well.

Does anyone have any ideas as to what could be making this noise? Has anyone encountered a similar noise in a similar location? I know that boats are under alot of stress from rigging, wave action, etc. so I know they are a dynamic, changing structure; I just don't like things I don't understand, or that could represent a potential problem.

Thanks for any suggestions or advice.

Frank

 

[Glyn Judson]

Creaking noise.

Frank, I think I have it right that the layout of the E30+ has the head to starboard (like my former E25+ and our present E31) and if so can you have a friend outside reproducing the creak while you check the forward head bulkhead to see if it's the culprit? Has tabbing come loose or is it in an area where there may be no tabbing? These and other questions might be answered with two folks working together. Failing that turn the stereo up as loud as it can go when walking forward on the starboard side. ; - ) Good luck, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA

 

[Sven]

We have some creaking areas too and had them on La Petite. I assume it is delamination, but not core failure since the deck certainly isn't spongy.

There is also tiny pop-corn in the deck when the sun comes up in the morning


-Sven

 

[Frank Langer]

Thanks for your replies so far (and more are welcome!). Glynn, the interior configuration is as follows: The hanging locker is on the starboard side, with a small non-opening port above it, and a bulkhead between it and the V-berth. In the V-berth itself, there is a horizontal area a little over a foot wide and four feet long that is the deck on the outside and is covered on the inside by naugahide headliner. There is no access from the underside, other than a cabin light which can be unscrewed, but doesn't reveal anything. There is no zipper in the headliner in this area, so no access. Going up from the headliner is a teak veneer on the side, leading to another piece across the V-berth and a similar piece on the port side (ie. this is the vertical area leading to the actual cabin top). It is trimmed all around with teak moulding held in by screws/bungs.

The creaking in question is well-forward of the hanging locker/bulkhead, and is at the area where the teak veneer connects with the teak veneer going across the V-Berth--this corresponds to the vertical fibreglass cabin top on the outide. There is no bulkhead or anything other than the teak veneer/teak trim in that area, and the deck itself doesn't seem soft/spongy. The noise sounds like it is coming from the interior. I haven't had anyone else at the boat with me since this started, but I think that will be my next step--to recruit my wife to listen carefully.

Although I'm not very familiar with delamination, if it is deck delamination, what would cause that to occur suddenly while the boat is at the dock? Any other ideas?

Thanks,
Frank

 

[Emerald]

Do you have a nylon or rubber mallet/hammer you can sound around on the deck? If it is delaminating, which is possible from your description, I would expect a slight sound change as you went from solid to delaminated areas. This might be one where if you haven't, go ahead and rebed everything you can on your deck and cabin top, and monitor for any changes. It's also possibly a candidate for drilling some holes and injecting epoxy if you decide it is growing or just not in your comfort zone. Do a check with a person below for other things, but I think you'll find it's the deck making the creaking sounds. I've got a little creaking spot in one place if you step on it just right that's stayed consistant for my ownership. I'll do something someday if it merritts it.

 

[Frank Langer]

Thanks, David. I don't have a mallet but have thought of tapping with the handle end of a large screwdriver or similar tool. There are no deck fittings in that area, so I don't think it is delamination from water, though I know eventually I'm due for re-bedding all deck fittings. I'm still puzzled how this could appear from one day to the next, while the boat is resting at the dock.

Thanks again for your reply.

Frank

 

[Emerald]

Something like this critter isn't a bad addition to the tool box:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...=Tools&sName=View+All&cName=Hand+Tools&mv=s2f

but I've used a screw driver handle before also

I'm really not familiar with your weather. How much hard freezing have you done this winter? Thinking if some water got in somewhere and migrated, it could cause the start of minor delamination with some hard freeze cycles. Remember that water can move several feet from the entry point, so look for the unexpected. How's the rub rail/toe rail area near this part of the deck, nearest uphill stanchion base, any tiny spider cracks around corners of the cabin trunk, raised deck area around stanchion etc?

 

[Meanolddad]

Hi Frank
I noticed our E30+ has the same issue the other day. Our creak is about 2 feet behind the shrouds starboard side. I will try the hammer trick and see what I find. I assume that it is delamination as there is no soft spots. Keep us posted what you find and I will do the same.
Greg

 

[Frank Langer]

Thanks for your various replies. There are no stanchion bases, cleats or other deck openings anywhere near where the creaking noise is occuring, so I'm fairly confident that it is not caused by water seepage, even from some distance away. The boat is in British Columbia and we have had a mild winter with minimal freezing, and no real freezing since December, so I don't think it has resulted from freeze/thaw cycles. I'm more inclined to think it is a shifting of something that is causing the interior woodwork to rub together in new ways, but I'm not able to see where.

I haven't had a chance to get back to the boat with my wife to check it out further, or check the deck for possible delamination. I'll update when I can, but would welcome any additional thoughts or advice.

Thanks again!

Frank

 

[Loren Beach]

Additional thoughts, as requested....

Our boats have always had a little bit of deflection in their wider deck sections. No "problem" except that sometimes, even with balsa coring, there are areas wide enough between supports to give a little bit. After all, the purpose of coring is to reduce deflection by providing an "I beam" effect to the deck. Reducing by 95% does not eliminate it completely.

As to movement, I have a guess - and it's just a guess. Your boat may have always had a few thousands of deflection in that area, and up 'til recently there was a friction place close to it where there was no tabbing or some cabinetry was friction-fitted beneath.

What with dust, a salt crystal, or maybe a bit of moisture, the contact point was "lubed" and you never would hear a squeak. For whatever reason that little bit of dust or whatever finally worked its way out and the tiny bit of friction now announces itself.

Some research underneath with an attentive ear while someone stomps around on top may lead to the culprit.

Best,
Loren

 

[Frank Langer]

Thanks, Loren. That is helpful. It's so frustrating after I have put many hours of work into getting the boat into really good shape (people ask me if she is new!), only to have this happen out of the blue and have me worry about whether I'm overlooking some serious emerging flaw. I know that Ericsons have a good reputation, and we love our boat, but in my opinion it should not start just creaking when walking on the deck. So I'm just a little worried until I can do a bit more investigative work. Hopefully I can figure it out and it's nothing serious.

Thanks again for your reply. Please keep the ideas coming!

Frank

 

[Emerald]

Hi Frank,

completely understand your frustration on the mystery creak and wondering what's up. The good thing is that our boats being an FRP and wood structure become very repairable if something is going on. So, one more long shot thought to throw out. I've always been amazed at how sounds transfer through lines and rigging. Awhile back I had a very odd groan that tied into my topping lift, but sounded like it was coming from a different spot, and took rocking the boat just so in her slip. Any chance you've got something like that going on? A spring line attached midships near where the sound is? A long shot I know, but might as well add it to the list. It'll be interesting to know what it finally turns out to be.

 

[Frank Langer]

Mystery creaking solved!

Thanks for all your replies and advice on this problem. My wife joined me on the boat today and was able to walk on the deck area while I watched and listened below to see if we could figure out where the wood creaking sound originates.

It became very clear that the trim piece on the starboard teak veneer in the V-berth was rubbing ever so slightly on the trim piece where it joins the hanging locker. Both trim pieces are attached with screws/teak bungs and I can see where the last screw on the trim has begun to loosen ever so slightly allowing the trim to move when someone walks on the deck in that area.

I sprayed that area with a bit of McLube dry lube and it stopped the creaking immediately. Now I have to decide whether it's worth removing the teak bung to tighten the trim screw a bit, risking that I can't make a new teak bung look as professional as the one that's there now. I have a tendency of not leaving well enough alone; on the other hand I like things to be fixed properly, so we'll see...

Anyway, my conclusion is that this was not deck delamination as I had feared (though I thought it unlikely), and for anyone else with creaks in the deck, it's worth checking the interior woodwork in that area before assuming delamination.

Thanks again for all your help!

Frank

 

[Glyn Judson]

Mystery creak solved.

Frank, Good for you and your wife to figure out the source of the creaking. Might I suggest that you consider tightening the screw by first removing the teak bung using an ice pick or scratch awl? Punch a hole dead center in the bung, then one to the left of it and one to the right. Return the awl to the center hole and lever the chunks out of the hole being slightly careful not to mar the edges of the hole, don't be in a hurry, patience is the answer. If it doesn't clear the hole completely, turn the screw out and the head should get the remaining debris. Then tighten the screw and fit another bung in the hole using a dab of white glue, varnish or whatever you prefer. You can do a darned good job of cutting the protruding bung flush by using a regular wood chisel, assuming the blade is wider than the bung. Turn the chisel over from its normal position and use the shoulder of it to regulate the depth of the cut by raising and lowering the handle up and down as needed. Start shaving it off near the top to determine the angle of the grain, work the chisel from the high side and begin removing the material one thin slice at a time. You'll be amazed how accurate you can get by levering the blade that way and eventually you'll make it flush with the wood around the hole without even touching sand paper to the bung. Go for it, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA

 

[Frank Langer]

Thanks, Glyn. What you are suggesting sounds very reasonable and similar to what I was thinking. The detail you provided will be very helpful in getting it right.

Thanks again!
Frank

 

[bayhoss]

Hello to all, another way of making the bungs flush is to take the replacement blade of a utility knife and hold either end and then pull gently toward you. The razor edge acts as a mini plane and it's about an inch wide. Works darn well.

Best,
Frank