Mystery Drip

[Mike Thomas]

All

I have a mystery that I could use some help on.

I’m getting a leak into the cabin on my E-29 with no apparent source? The drip(s) are coming out of what looks like the seam between the inner tub and deck. There is a cavity above it where you can access the chain plates but everything in there is dry. Has anyone experienced this one before?

Mike T
E-29

 

[CaptnNero]

Forgive me if you already knew this, but where water emerges often isn't the source. I usually have had to investigate laterally and uphill from the emergence. Obviously look for dampness or evidence of water such as moldly areas (black or grey) or just run marks.

-- neal

 

[Annapolis E-27]

Mike,

I have the same leak in my E-27. It continues to baffle me as to where it is coming from.

 

[Emerald]

Hi Mike,


This type of leak can make you nuts. Only happen when the wind blows from the west and it's a full moon? But seriously, sometimes, if you are lucky, some strategically laid talcum powder will leave water trails. Might want to pop some of the access panels and dust some about. And, as already mentioned, the stuff can run great distances, so do a few puffs of powder on the overhead and upstream of where the leak appears.

Good luck. I've had mixed results tracking this type of stuff, and just when I think I have it, the wind blows from the west and


-David
Independence 31
Emerald

 

[Randy Rutledge]

Leaks in this area can be from the ports, shrouds chain plates, stanchion base, grab rails, track for jib sheet blocks or any where above this seam. If water gets between the headliner and the carriage roof it can leak out at the port interior trim, the wood trim that covers the openings or the seam where the headliner meets the hull liner.

My grab rails had no bedding only a crust that looked like 30 years of dirt buildup.

Place a hose above the suspected leak area and let it drip for a few hours and see if water enters. I would bet grab rails or ports.

 

[Art Mullinax]

Down hill struggle

Fought the same battle on my 71 E29. My leak was coming from the screws holding the rub rail on and from the port in the head. Took the rub rail off and it was held on by large sheet metal screws not thru bolted. Sealed the screw holes and haven't put the rubrail back on (looks horrible).

 

[rgoff]

I had leaks on both sides of my '73 E27 under the windows. After caulking the small covers of the shroud chainplate openings I didn't have leaks anymore.

Good luck,

 

[Jeff Asbury]

All good advice here. I as well have been plagued by leaks in the same location for some time now. I already removed the rub rails and sealed the screw holes. No luck stopping the leak. I did not think to check the chain plates and stanchions. Also the jib car track is suspect. I like the talcum powder idea!

I did something to take care of the small amount of water that does collect in the back of the quarter berth so I don't have to mop it up so often.

I drilled a 1/4" hole in the far back starboard corner and now most of what water collects there drains into the bilge. Not any kind of leak fix, but it now stays pretty dry back there even after a heavy rain.

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

I heard someone mention foodcoloring in a spray bottle to source leaks, but I think you would want to be careful not to strain.

 

[Mike Thomas]

All interesting thoughts.

I will say that I caulked/bedded the ports and chain plates last year and when I pull the access cover off it is bone dry in the cavity behind it. Since it rained all weekend, I was in the boat most of Saturday and Sunday trying to find the source. That seam I have circled in the photo (not my boat) is a weird one. If you all look close at that seam I can't see how it could be anything leaking on the deck. If the source were on the deck or the chain plates I would think that the water would gather in the cavity behind the access plate.

I did notice that there was a good amount of caulking on the top of the rub rail channel (where it meets the hull) indicating a previous attempt to seal it. The rub rail insert has pulled away from the rub rail channel in spots also, water can get in there.

Has anyone attempted replacing the rub rail while afloat?

 

[Jeff Asbury]

I took off and replaced the rub rails and plastic extrusions on both port and starboard sides while afloat at my slip. No big deal, just about a two day job. Need soapy water and a wedge to get the rubber rails inserted into the extrusions. It takes quite a bit of mussel to do it.

 

[Mike Thomas]

Thanks Jeff

Mike T

 

[hcpookie]

AH! I just found the source (I'm pretty sure) of that same drip on mine.

It appears to come from somewhere in front of that spot. Last night during the storm, I got creative with a small mirror and a flashlight. I could see a small stream of water that seemed to originate from the windows, or someplace close to them.

Assuming the core of my roof isn't a giant sponge, that would put the leak either at the windows themselves, or perhaps the hatchway. To the left in your photo.

I found this by looking through the small hatch directly above the camera where you can access the instruments. Anything on the roof seems to terminate into that area, and on mine it appears that that is where the water collects and then spills all-at-once when the pool is big enough.


More disturbing was when I removed the wood panels that cover the wiring, and found a huge river (!!!) of water pouring in from the standing rigging mounts. It was alarming in that this river followed the path of the 110v wiring. The 30-year-old, brittle-sheathed-and-exposed-wiring, corroded-ends-on-the-sockets, 110v wiring.

HTH

 

[Mike Thomas]

That’s what makes my drip such a mystery. My wiring trough and the instrument hatch is bone the entire length of the boat while the water is dripping???

 

[Mark F]

The rub rail on my E23 mk1 was leaking like a sieve. I removed it, ground down the rough outward facing flange, filled the screw holes and voids with filler, sanded, painted and have never had a leak (from the rub rail area!) again. I know it’s not a “pure” E23 anymore but not having to worry about the 70 or so holes leaking again is worth it.

 

[hcpookie]

That’s what makes my drip such a mystery. My wiring trough and the instrument hatch is bone the entire length of the boat while the water is dripping???

I don't think I can snap a pic, but this isn't the wire area I'm referring to - sorry if that confused you. My point was only that I found the 2nd leak to be the wiring trough leak. This empties into the bilge, and as such I never see it make a drip. On my E27, the "trough" is actually just below that wood panel.

When I looked into the instrument hatch, I was able to find some water in the instrument hatch, but it was ONLY just at the bottom outer edge, which is where the water would drip to if it came from the window frame (or roof area). On my E27, this area is all open and the space in-between the inner and outer hulls had a little bit of moisture. If I were to pull the windows completely out and looked straight down, I'd be looking at the very same space.

I pulled the wood panel off the quarter berth and was able to confirm the winch and cleat (both immediately behind) wasn't the problem. The part of the shell that is the back side of the rub rail, at least on mine, was dry. In fact the whole outer hull was dry on the inside. On mine, the leak is coming from "in front" and above the drip. Therefore, the location of the rub rail on my E27 would imply that the rub rail isn't the leaky part, at least for me.

I did notice that, during my troubleshooting, it suddenly began to drip "all-at-once" as if someone had turned on a faucet - that is what led me to believe a pool was accumulating just out of sight, flooding over the low spot, and making the drip a very sudden gusher. The fact that I was monkeying around in that area, rocking the boat, would make that seem more likely.

Of course, yours may be totally different! The little hand mirrors and BRIGHT flashlight did wonders for me - that may be something you want to consider.

It doesn't help that I'm not too sure how much of the roof has a cored deck. I would figure at least the non-skid areas, but how far to the sides of the roof is it cored? That may provide another clue, because if the water is travelling from a hatch or something, it may be wicking along the edge of the core...

 

[Mike Thomas]

I think that you have me on the rite track. what doesn’t drip onto the settee winds up behind the galley. So it has to be getting in between the inner and outer hulls.

I like the mirror and flashlight theory. I have to pick on up this weekend and start poking around.

Thanks
Mike T

 

[Mark F]

This is what my E23 Mk1 looks like after removing the rubrail.

Mark

 

[bigtyme805]

Mike:

I bet that is coming from your stanchion base. The place you circled is near the stanchion base. If that is not the source then rest assured it is your rub rail. I dealt with this before and what I did is run my hose for a while on the deck and see if it starts to leak. But you need to have everything disassembled in the cabin and major light.

Happy hunting...

 

[HGSail]

Mike

I think Mark is on the right track. On my E29 I have the same problem in the same spot and furthur back also. After removing the stantions and resealing them, I still had a leak. And it only leaks when it rains hard, I have flooded the deck with a hose and nothing. I finaly have come to the conclusion that the seam between the deck and the hull was my problem. When I take the access panel off and put my hand on the hull, It's damp. There isn't even any obvious water trails just dampness. So I have concluded that when the water runs down the edge of the deck then out of one of the cutouts then between the rubrail and the glass and thru the seam into the inside. The P.O. had tried to chaulk the top of the rubail, Another indication that maybe he knew about it. (I don't know maybe it worked at first, But since I bought the boat it has always leaked.) I'm hoping to pull the rails and fix it this winter.

Pat
E29
'73
#224
Holy Guacamole