My third week of ownership mold and mildew out of know where 1977 Ericson 31 Cruising

[Bill Tanner]

Okay so I purchase this beautiful boat which smells sweet and no signs of any interior leaks, we splash on Jun 5th and on my third trip down I am met with a very strong mold and mildew smell. Upon further examination I fine two wet cushions one in the v berth port side and one in the starboard quarter berth. I have brought the cushions home and cleaned them have not been back for a week. Before leaving i spoke with a friend who suggested getting a headlamp ( which i did) as we had an approaching storm. During the night Water started coming in from above in the chain locker where the chain come through the hole in the deck ( i hope this drains to the bilge) and the other down the port side of my beautiful mahogany interior, I marked the spots with a pen and placed towels there for any future water. The other location refused to leak from above although when laying on my back i can see evidence of previous water coming in. I not going to lie I am more than a little bummed.

I am planning on returning to the boat tonight for the weekend if I can stand it ( i hope most of the smell was from the cushions). I am fairly sure that one of the leaks is coming from a stanchion in the port bow and i know it has to be re bedded but i don't want to ruin the interior and every-time i touch the white panel concealing the backing plates for the stanchions the threads seem to just pull out.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Frustrated new boat owner....Bill T

 

[Loren Beach]

Having battled some gross & ugly mold on our present boat way back when we bought it, you have all my sympathies.
OTOH, if there was no smell when the interior was dry, the prior owner must have some something to kill the odor... and that's not an easy odor to cover up.

I have an ozone generator and it helped some in the early days, but we have not needed it for over a decade.

If, and that's only an 'if', the foam inside the cushion shows evidence of black mold spores when you unzip the cover, you may have to toss that foam and replace it.
We had to do that for all (!) of the cushion foam in our boat. OTOH we did manage to launder the covers and save them. They needed new zipper pulls, but after all of that work in '95, they are still in great shape with no odors.
Given the age of the boat, that foam is probably about 15 years past the time to change it out anyhow.
We changed ours to 2.6 density when it was replaced in '95, and it still sits and sleeps like new.

As for the leak, find it and stop it. I would imagine that Glyn and some other owners of sister ships can help you with that chore. Most boats over 10 or 15 years old will have rain leaks. There's usually a technique to finding and fixing them.

Regards,
Loren

 

[Bill Tanner]

3rd week of ownership

Thank you Loren,
Yes there are black spores on the foam which was replaced in 02 and has barely been used at all and the fabric was new then too and shows no signs of wear. And the zippers are rusted and many days of wd40 and penetrating oil have not helped. But thanks for your fast response and I did notice that i found open boxes of fabric softener sheets that were opened and dispersed throughout the boat that were missed upon the inspection. Thanks
Bill T

 

[Emerald]

Don't despair on this one - we've all been there with older boats. Stopping the leaks is the first step. You'll most likely need to repair the hole that is stripped out (easy epoxy fix) and rebed the stanchion(s). Your issue is going to be access to the nuts on the backside. I can't visualize how your V-berths are built in enough detail to tell you where I'd start, but look to see if you can take down the top piece of planking - thinking you have planks of mahogany on the sides of your V-berths, not the vinyl on later boats like I have. There are probably some bungs you'll have to take out, and then you'll get access to the screws to pull it. If it doesn't jump out, post a couple pictures with some detail.

I don't think I've ever bought a boat that didn't have something in need. Think of it as a great way to get some real hands on knowledge about her build, systems etc., and do it right and enjoy a beautiful sailboat when all done.

 

[Bill Tanner]

Vinyl

There is vinyl at the top above the wood I believe if I remove that I will be able to see the bolts, no holes are stripped I don't get it and I havnt tugged on the lifelines I board from the other side. Thanks Bill T

 

[Christian Williams]

Right, this is part of the fun. Really. Your 31-footer would cost $150K to replace new, so the deal is we make ours new a little at a time.

Every deck fitting on an older boat (starting about 2000?) needs to be rebedded. Probably also the ports. It's on everybody's list. Old bedding compound leaks.

I suggest leaving the cushions home until you stop the big ones. Nobody thinks of cushions as a luxury, but that's all they are. Unless sleeping, a boat is quite comfortable without them.

Wash the covers in the washing machine, using something like Tide. Gentle cycle, maybe twice. Air dry, no dryer machine.

Spray the black spots on the foam with a hardware-store product such as Moldex. Let dry in the sun until really dry. If the smell persists, you can either put up with it or spring for new foam.

How is the bilge? Many odors come from there. Clean it like a dinner plate. Pay especial attention to areas under bunks, where bilge water goes when the yacht heels over.

After cleaning, add bilge cleaner and pump out. When I first bought my 1985 boat I must've put five gallons of Costco citrus cleaner and several bottles of Chlorox through it over a month's time.

You haven't mentioned smell from the head (good!).

I have an ozone generator , too, but like Loren no longer need it (and ozone ain't good for rubber and other similar components). So there's hope.

The forum exists because we have all been where you are, and almost everything you face is written up here, or elsewhere, as a guide and comfort.

 

[Christian Williams]

If you have a vinyl headliner, first remove the wooden strip. Under that you'll see the rusted staples holding it on. Pull the vinyl off carefully, and that should reveal all.

It's quite easy to get the vinyl headliner taut again afterwards, just stretch and staple it back. You can even buy new vinyl headliner, in case the old stuff is a mess.

 

[Glyn Judson]

Repairing pesky leaks.

Bill, First of all, everything said so far is right on. Tackle the leaks first, then clean up any telltale signs of water leaks, we've all been there. E31 owners have a great advantage over many other Ericsons owners in that we have port lights that can be easily rebedded. I can see from some to the photos I have of your boat that there are signs of past leaks around them, but on to the stanchion leaks. Carefully remove that section of headliner needed to access the underside of the base and gather the anticipated tools for the task. Diagonal pliers would be handy to remove any resistant staples but they most likely will all be rusted off. Hint: There's a great chance that you're in the right place to fix a leak if you find rusted staples. You might need a Dremel tool to grind away any glass fabric under and around the nuts for the base. Already have appropriate wrenches and screwdrivers at the ready of course. This could easily become a two person job with one outside holding the screwdriver. I believe you'll only run into the fiber glass at the edge of the deck where the base is fastened and if so, create a counter sink in each of the four holes to accept excess bedding using BoatLife polysulphide or similar. If you drill into plywood or balsa (not likely) over-drill the holes, seal the bottoms with tape and fill from on deck all the way to the top of each hole using West System #105 with thickener and allow at least a day to cure. Redrill the 1/4" holes and bed as above. Buy an upholsterers stapler such as this one listed on eBay: 381305528084. Enter that number in the eBay search box and it will appear. Buy or borrow a pancake air compressor or accumulator tank and hose and re-staple the vinyl headliner in place using stainless or monel staples. Pull the vinyl only enough to match the old staple holes with the stumps of the remaining ones, then staple over or nearby. By doing that you'll avoid the chance of over stretching and creating wrinkles. Can you be more specific as to what white panel you speak of, I'm confused? Go for it, Glyn

 

[Alan Gomes]

Pure Ayre

Consider also a liberal use of this product: http://shop.sailboatowners.com/prod.php?11608 Spray it on your cushions, in bilge areas, etc. Then allow it to dry with as much ventilation as possible. It's non-toxic and food safe, and quite effective.

And speaking of ventilation: this is a key component to keeping odors at bay. Obviously, as others have said, your first task is to eliminate any and all leaks. But besides that, getting good air flow through the boat will go a long way toward avoiding mold, mildew, and other odor causing issues.

I'm not familiar with your particular boat, but as was already mentioned, the bilge can be a source of odors. One particular way in which it happens on some of our boats (though again, I don't know about yours) is through the teak and holly plywood cabin sole. On my boat (an E26-2), the T&H plywood was not treated in any way. The shallow bilge compartments on my boat would get water in them and when the boat would heel over it would saturate the underside of the ply. I'm sure, too, that just having water sit in those covered bilge compartments imparted a fair bit of water to the underside of the ply. Over the course of 30+ years (long before I owned the boat) this frequent soaking caused the plywood to to become a soggy, delaminated mess, with resulting smell issues.

A friend of mine and I just ripped it out and will soon be replacing it with a new subfloor that we will thoroughly saturate with West System. We'll be installing marine Lonseal over the top of that. In the mean time, I painted the bilge areas with Bilgekote and it already smells quite a bit better. (The red stuff that you see on the floor is the old glue that was holding down the floor that we ripped out.

 

[frick]

Dry and no mode

Greetings,
My 1971 E29 was a leaker.
I rebedded every deck fitting, and every port light. I did it over two years. I had to do some sailing, so the leaks had to wait... In the long haul, once I stopped the leaks the boat smelled better. My ice box also melted into the bildge. This meant that over time I had to be sure to clean the ice box, but to wash the bildge on a regular basis.

Remember that most of the Ericksons have fiberglass internal headliners and furniture. It god to deep clean every now and then.

I just hose the innards all down, while adding soap and bleach.

Once it under control, the Smells are sweet.

Rick

 

[Glyn Judson]

Ridding the boat of mold.

Bill, The previous advice for getting mold out of the cushions is spot on. I also had mold in our boat and soon thereafter got rid of it for good using a two pronged approach. Granted, ours was from some bit water incursion: the forward port chainplate into the hanging locker and also in the head for the same one on starboard and I know you might have more extensive mold but this might help with the foam cushions at least. At least you can try it before tossing them if nothing else works to that point. I bought a small bottle of Lysol original scent liquid disinfectant and poured it into an empty Windex bottle, then applied it liberally inside both lockers using the liquid to help me wash off all traces of black dots. I then sprayed again a day or two later for added measure. In an act of overkill, I installed a small stainless louvered vent in the bottom of the locker door and a second one high up in the forward bulkhead of the hanging locker that exhausts into the V-berth. I permanently installed an old Kodak slide projector cooling fan behind the upper vent that I use to move air from the bottom vent and out the top one. the fan is permanently hard wired to the boat's 110 volt electrical system with a small in-line switch nearby. It's run 24/7 for the past 18 or so years and shows no sign of giving up the ghost. Mold and mildew are a distant bad memory now. Don't be tempted to buy the Lysol aerosol can unless they've changed the formula. At the time it was noting more than a room fresher without the disinfectant formula added. Please note the fan in the upper right corner of the third image. Hope this helps, GlynView attachment 16732View attachment 16733View attachment 16734 Glyn

 

[Glyn Judson]

Let's try attaching those images again.

Bill & all, Here are the attachments that didn't make it in my last email. Maybe they were too big, I'll split them up this go around. Glyn

 

[Glyn Judson]

The last image of the vented locker.

Bill and all, Please see the last of three images relating to venting my hanging locker. Look in the upper right corner of the image and you'll see the projector fan I installed behind the louvered vent. Glyn

 

[Bill Tanner]

3 week follow up pi

Well I hope that my photo is attached if so my leak or water coming in is approximately 10 in his forward of the fan, there is a curved piece of wood that goes all the way across with little wooden plugs covering what I believe are screws. Am I to remove these plugs and take this strip of to get access? And if I do it will certainly cause damage to the plug or surrounding wood which would be unacceptable. Juat being cautious. Thanks BILL

 

[Christian Williams]

Yes, traditional wood plugs hide the screw heads. Insert a small screwdriver and they should neatly pop out with no damage to the trim piece.

Measure the diameter of the plug and buy a bag of new ones at West Marine or similar. Touch base with varnish (never glue) and reinsert with grain lined up corrected.

Slice off protruding plug with razor blade. One dab of varnish completes the job.

Or you can lightly sand and put a new coat on the whole trim piece.

 

[Glyn Judson]

Finding that pesky leak.

Bill, I'd be tempted to look on the cabin top for any hardware that might be the potential source of leaking in the area you describe waaaay before removing those plugs and that wood, all it does is to cover the staples in the vinyl. Removing it might not get you any closer to solving the leak and certainly won't provide you with a place to seal it. Glyn

 

[Emerald]

for the leak on the cabin trunk, another source besides deck hardware can be the screws that hold the brow that runs around on the exterior. If you've got a leak at a stanchion or a spinning nut and need to get to the backside, then look at the top of the wood and head liner at the outermost part of the v-berth at the point where you're in line with the stanchion, and see if there's a way to get to the backside bolts. I'm not sure if taking down the vinyl there will gain access or if there's a removable piece etc to get to them. On mine with the vinyl on the sides as well as head liner, you can feel them, and it's a question of taking down the vinyl. Lots of little staples, but easy stuff, and I highly recommend getting a stapler as mentioned. I've used it on many projects now.

 

[Bill Tanner]

Thank you so much

Thank you everyone for your support, advise, and encouragement. Bill T

 

[frick]

Solar fan

I forgot to mention. I scewed down a small hobby Solar panel which dedicated to power a small fan, just to keep the inside air moving. It has been running for 12 years now.

Rick

 

[Martin King]

Welcome to the forum. Tackling leaking deck fittings is something every boat owner deals with. Glyn and company have given you great advice. Regarding your photo, there is a stanchion base near
where your fan is sitting, and that is where I would start the search. You can try peeling back the head liner in that location to access the nuts, however Ericson frequently ran the tabbing for the hull/deck joint
right over the hardware and if so, will require grinding to remove the glass. This unfortunate fact can make chasing down leaks difficult. Water can flow into the tabbing/headliner and travel some distance before
exiting into the interior. I also recall having to remove the top board in the hull liner to access the nuts there in the v berth.

Here's a tip for removing wood plugs. I first drill a pilot hole with a small bit centered in the plug, say around 1/8 inch or smaller. Then chuck up a screw, with the head
cut off/ground down, say a #8. Slowly drill down with screw and if you are lucky the plug will pop out in one piece. Regarding new plugs, I prefer to make them myself using a tapered plug cutter on a drill press.
The store bought variety don't have the tapered sides and may not fit as nice. Align the grain, tap in the plug, and cut off the excess with a flush cut saw.http://www.veritastools.com/Products/Page.aspx?p=153

All of the above is fine, but really should be regarded as a band aid. I have the same boat as you and had numerous deck leaks. The 30 year old foam backing the vinyl had degraded and black mold had
started around the leaks. My first boat project was complete headliner replacement with wood panels that can be easily removed for access. This allowed for rebedding of every deck fitting except the toe rail.
Regarding rebedding fittings, it's important to put a chamfer on each hole with a countersink bit-something that should have been done at the factory, but wasn't. Here's a really good thread about
bedding in deck fittings. http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?8645-Bedding-Deck-Hardware-With-Butyl-Tape&highlight=bedding

Martin