Mounting the Last Resort on the E32-3 Sea Hood

[vanilladuck]

On the long list of preparations for cruising the Channel Islands and Hawaii from San Francisco is the installation of a life raft. I'm not really fond of hanging it off the stern pulpit. The next logical spot is amidships on the sea hood (aka "the turtle shell", as I call it). Below is a photo of an empty life raft case and mounting bracket similar to the one I intend to use:



Luckily, I'm in the process of replacing the mainsheet traveler, which is through bolted to the sea hood. I'll have one time access to the underside of this large fiberglass shell, so I need to utilize a bolting system in which I don't have access to the underside. I'd like to make the mount removable for times when I don't need 85lbs of life saving rubber and CO2 in front of me.

I have ideas rolling around my head, like drilling holes and using epoxy to permanently mount through bolts with heavy washers on the under side of the seahood. Then when the life raft is out using round cut discs of G10 to cover the bolts.

What other ideas are out there? Or links to similar projects needing a similar technique?

Cheers and thanks!
- Bryan

 

[Loren Beach]

Some friends of ours with a similar size but another brand of boat attached the ss cradle for their hard shell just forward of the sea hood. It is off center and near to the hand rail on one side. This has the advantage of leaving some useful forward vision for the driver, also.

 

[Christian Williams]

Make sure the nuts don't interfere with the sliding hatch.

I have no problem with a raft in the quarterberth, where it can have a soft case.

 

[Pete the Cat]

Make sure the nuts don't interfere with the sliding hatch.

I have no problem with a raft in the quarterberth, where it can have a soft case.

I guess this is a preference thing and you already have a cased raft. But I carry a valise below when offshore, because I think it is safer than most on deck arrangements. If you think through the situation you might be in when you need it, then carefully read the directions (unfasten the multiple clips, secure a properly led (!) painter to a strong point on the boat, and toss the whole business overboard)- and then jerk the mechanism to inflate-I just cannot imagine dealing with that up on deck where it might be very bad weather or there might be some fallen rigging. I am not sure if they sell them any more, but hydrostatic releases on most recreational boats seem like a very bad idea to me---launching a raft needs to as well considered, timed and executed to be effective. I did have the opportunity to get in my life raft at servicing and I suggest that everyone who has one should avail themselves of this experience--it is enlightening. I had no idea what was packed in there and what I was going to need to do. I recommend careful walking through what you would do with your raft if you have one. Having the equipment is just part of the prep. FWIW.

 

[vanilladuck]

Appreciate your points of view on life raft mounting and deployment SOPs!

What I'm really looking for is thoughts on how to mount the raft as I've described on the sea hood. Any ideas on the bolting situation? I haven't measured yet, but I think I have about 1 to 1.5" between the sliding hatch cover and the bottom of the sea hood. That would potentially leave room for something like https://www.mcmaster.com/products/nut-inserts/stainless-steel-twist-resistant-rivet-nuts/

Maybe there's a solution with backing plates and epoxy?

 

[Loren Beach]

The sea hood (aka hatch garage lid) on our boat is balsa cored. If I were to attach something like this to the top I would definitely over-drill/epoxy fill/re-drill for those new fastenings. With a solid core of thickened epoxy and maybe an added piece of 1/4" G10 underneath I might then drill and tap and have ss bolts that tighten solidly, and are cut off flush at the bottom of the holes. (Just a thought, and YMMV)

 

[peaman]

Maybe there's a solution with backing plates and epoxy?

I like this approach. Maybe a nut welded to the underside of a stainless plate and then through-tapped, with that plate then epoxied to the underside of the sea hood. The seahood does not need to be leak-free, as it has drains on the sides and aft, so no concern with the nuts. Over-drill and fill as Loren describes. When the raft is not mounted, insert bolts to fill the holes. Hex drive flat head screws or button head hex drive screws will provide a nice aesthetic.

Rather than a standard nut welded to the underside of a stainless plate, perhaps a coupling nut welded to the upper side of the plate. The coupling nut could then extend through, and be length-adjusted to match the thickness of the sea hood, which would simplify finishing the hole in the sea hood.

 

[G Kiba]

Brian, Just my 2 cents. I think Ray (aka Pete the Cat) has the right idea. And it would save you all the work of mounting and un-mounting.

 

[vanilladuck]

I like this approach. Maybe a nut welded to the underside of a stainless plate and then through-tapped, with that plate then epoxied to the underside of the sea hood. The seahood does not need to be leak-free, as it has drains on the sides and aft, so no concern with the nuts. Over-drill and fill as Loren describes. When the raft is not mounted, insert bolts to fill the holes. Hex drive flat head screws or button head hex drive screws will provide a nice aesthetic.

Rather than a standard nut welded to the underside of a stainless plate, perhaps a coupling nut welded to the upper side of the plate. The coupling nut could then extend through, and be length-adjusted to match the thickness of the sea hood, which would simplify finishing the hole in the sea hood.

This sounds like a nice solution because there wouldn't be anything protruding from the top of the sea hood. With finishing, would you just fill the void around the finishing nut with epoxy and maybe a little gelcoat? or something different @peaman?

 

[peaman]

With finishing, would you just fill the void around the finishing nut with epoxy and maybe a little gelcoat? or something different @peaman?

I think it would be easy enough to have such a small clearance between the coupling nut and the surface of the seahood, that a small bit of caulking would be adequate. Epoxy would also work while providing some lateral and torsional stiffness for the nut.

You want to make sure the nut can't spin, ever. Assuming you have at least two nut locations in the hood, you could combine two or more on a single strap of metal, rather than a separate backing plate for each nut.

Once holes are drilled for the nuts, you will be able to confirm exactly how much clearance you have for installing the nut assemblies. I expect there is a stopper at the forward edge of the sliding hatch which is the highest point. That stopper strip could be notched if needed to get some additional clearance for the nut assemblies.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[vanilladuck]

While debating the location of the life raft is not really within my intended scope for this thread, I'm happy to share my reasons for mounting the life raft outside the cabin.

I imagine the scenario and response: the boat is sinking fast and I need to get out. The SOP looks something like:

1. Grab foulies and PFD
2. Grab EPIRB
3. Grab Ditch Bag
4. Deploy life raft and get in

I'm a single-hander. So, the worst case scenario is I'm fast asleep. It's already going to be a rush to don foulies and grab 1-3 above. If I have to lug an 70lb valise onto the deck, that's going to slow things down. In an extreme emergency, choices may need to be made -- rhetorically, what would I skip from the above list?

By putting the life raft on the exterior of the boat, I remove a major obstacle. It's ready to go. The raft's painter can already be attached to a hardpoint on the boat. There's no additional rigging that needs to be done. Release from it's cradle and kick it over the rail.

A word on hydrostatic releases: purely a backup mechanism. They don't release until the device is 5' to 13' (1.5m to 4m) under water. By the time that happens I want the raft to deploy without orchestration. Hopefully, I would already be in the water waiting for it to emerge. More here: https://www.cmhammar.com/h20-release-units/

After I thought through all of this, I looked at the SSS (Single-handed Sailing Society) requirements for LongPac and TransPac events, of which I plan to participate in both:

A liferaft may be stowed in any location where it is secure from loss and damage, not obstructed by other gear, and demonstrably capable of being brought to the lifelines within 15 seconds.

Pretty sure I can't get a 70lb valise to the lifelines in 15 seconds.

 

[vanilladuck]

I hope that makes sense.

It does! I think my next step is to finish removing the traveler (a project all by itself) and sea hood so I can inspect the thickness. Will report back here with data, photos, next steps. Thanks!

 

[Christian Williams]

Well, OK, but the emergencies I envision aren't like ejecting from an F-15.

Usually when the boat is filling with water there's time for leak identification and attempting solutions. I guess when the prop shaft falls out, or a whale strike, or a collision with a container, or whatever else we can think up. I can wrestle my raft up through the companionway pretty fast, when knee deep.

Even struck by a containership going 20 knots, the boat might still float and give time--if it were not demolished and sunk in minutes.

A more likely scenario is being beaten silly by a storm after many hours of desperate survival, and a giant rescue ship now hovering nearby, or a helicopter overhead. Still, plenty of time to prepare.

In 40 knots and 20-foot seas it can be argued that wrestling a raft in a deck case, exposed to the wind, might not be easier than crouched in the cockpit. Especially in a smaller sailboat, which is going to be radically tossed around in ultimate conditions.

But of course conjecture is a free-for-all and no right answer.

I think my real reason for a valise below is that I am pretty sure I'll never need it. More than pretty sure, confident I'll never actually use it. It's for disaster, which I intend to avoid by prudence and weather forecasting and AIS and satellite comms. And it keeps a big ugly thing off the deck so I don't have to look at it all day.

The discussion is worth it, since we do have to prepare for the worst.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

Bryan,
I wonder if any of the gear in the Weld Mount system would be of use. Though, it's pretty dear at ten bucks a pop for those female standoff mounts.

Weld Mount Glue-On Fastener System | Fisheries Supply

Fisheries Supply carries a wide variety of products including Weld Mounting system for cable ties. Browse our selection of Weld Mount marine power supplies.

www.fisheriessupply.com

Weld Mount - H.B. Fuller - Fasteners - Cable Clamp

Weld Mount - H.B. Fuller - Fasteners - Cable Clamp

www.hbfullerproducts.com

Cheers,
Jeff

 

[Pete the Cat]

While debating the location of the life raft is not really within my intended scope for this thread, I'm happy to share my reasons for mounting the life raft outside the cabin.

I imagine the scenario and response: the boat is sinking fast and I need to get out. The SOP looks something like:

1. Grab foulies and PFD
2. Grab EPIRB
3. Grab Ditch Bag
4. Deploy life raft and get in

I'm a single-hander. So, the worst case scenario is I'm fast asleep. It's already going to be a rush to don foulies and grab 1-3 above. If I have to lug an 70lb valise onto the deck, that's going to slow things down. In an extreme emergency, choices may need to be made -- rhetorically, what would I skip from the above list?

By putting the life raft on the exterior of the boat, I remove a major obstacle. It's ready to go. The raft's painter can already be attached to a hardpoint on the boat. There's no additional rigging that needs to be done. Release from it's cradle and kick it over the rail.

A word on hydrostatic releases: purely a backup mechanism. They don't release until the device is 5' to 13' (1.5m to 4m) under water. By the time that happens I want the raft to deploy without orchestration. Hopefully, I would already be in the water waiting for it to emerge. More here: https://www.cmhammar.com/h20-release-units/

After I thought through all of this, I looked at the SSS (Single-handed Sailing Society) requirements for LongPac and TransPac events, of which I plan to participate in both:


Pretty sure I can't get a 70lb valise to the lifelines in 15 seconds.

 

[Pete the Cat]

I see I participated in hijacking this thread and apologize. I should have thought more about my response. I think how we rig boats for emergencies needs to be a matter of personal preference and, by definition, cannot be done with a lot of direct experience. I think it is important to think through exactly how we would use devices in detail because I have found myself taking false confidence in some deliveries where the mere presence of safety devices was, in retrospect, too comforting--I never really considered if the painter was long enough to get to a strong point or if I could actually lift the case over the rail--the boat had a liferaft. That was false security on my part. Although I am more of Christian's opinion of liferaft deployment, it is clear you have given this matter to your own satisfaction. You were asking for advice on mounting the rack, not about the advisability of your plan. I apologize for my part in this.

 

[vanilladuck]

I see I participated in hijacking this thread and apologize. I should have thought more about my response. I think how we rig boats for emergencies needs to be a matter of personal preference and, by definition, cannot be done with a lot of direct experience. I think it is important to think through exactly how we would use devices in detail because I have found myself taking false confidence in some deliveries where the mere presence of safety devices was, in retrospect, too comforting--I never really considered if the painter was long enough to get to a strong point or if I could actually lift the case over the rail--the boat had a liferaft. That was false security on my part. Although I am more of Christian's opinion of liferaft deployment, it is clear you have given this matter to your own satisfaction. You were asking for advice on mounting the rack, not about the advisability of your plan. I apologize for my part in this.

Ray, this is really thoughtful - thank you. All your viewpoints are valid.

As I read this and reflect on my own response above, I think I have an opportunity to improve.. this is a discussion forum and maybe my desire is to think about the problem of through bolting a life raft cradle. But, someone else reading this thread might desire to understand the options, reasons, and procedures for different life raft storage and deployment. It's all fair game -- who the heck am I to try and restrict what is discussed? I've started threads on this site in the past and some folks have been very kind and caring about suggesting another direction, which turned out to be the route I went

 

[vanilladuck]

Bryan,
I wonder if any of the gear in the Weld Mount system would be of use. Though, it's pretty dear at ten bucks a pop for those female standoff mounts.

Weld Mount Glue-On Fastener System | Fisheries Supply

Fisheries Supply carries a wide variety of products including Weld Mounting system for cable ties. Browse our selection of Weld Mount marine power supplies.

www.fisheriessupply.com

Weld Mount - H.B. Fuller - Fasteners - Cable Clamp

Weld Mount - H.B. Fuller - Fasteners - Cable Clamp

www.hbfullerproducts.com

Cheers,
Jeff

These are interesting! I'm definitely see an interesting solve here with having female threaded components bonded under the sea hood so that hex machine screws can be used to mount the raft. Then when the raft is off the boat, there would be nothing protruding upwards on the sea hood

I still haven't been able to remove the sea hood yet. Got all the screws out and tried cutting the sealant around the edges. Probably needs some more digging, scraping, etc. The boat goes to the rigger's dock to have the mast down on Tuesday - I might get his help with this while we work on a few other things (standing rigging, new furler, new boomvang, new backstay adjuster, new traveler and a couple other running rigging adjustments)

 

[Loren Beach]

I still haven't been able to remove the sea hood yet. Got all the screws out and tried cutting the sealant around the edges.

Heat gun! Not too super hot, but pretty darned warm. EY used 5200, and we needed to use a heat gun, after our guru pointed out that I was trying to remove parts "the hard way."

 

[vanilladuck]

Heat gun! Not too super hot, but pretty darned warm. EY used 5200, and we needed to use a heat gun, after our guru pointed out that I was trying to remove parts "the hard way."

Ah the caulk that is exposed to the outside deck of the boat is soft and pliable. I'm guessing the 5200 is underneath the edge that joins to the deck/hood? 5200 is hard/rigid after it cures, right?

Would you apply a medium amount of heat to the fiberglass edges?