Jack Lines

[Bob O'Toole]

Hi, I just purchased a new (old) Ericson 34. I am thinking of installing Jack lines, as they make me feel secure when properly used. Where on the bow is a good place to put an attachment? Any ideas on what to use?

Thanks

 

[NateHanson]

Personally I like tubular nylon webbing for jacklines, because it lays flat underfoot stretches a bit, and doesn't weigh much. I just attach them to the bow cleats or sometimes to a dedicated padeye on the fore-deck if there's on on the boat I'm on. The aft end should be attached to a cleat or padeye at the forward end of the cockpit, so you can clip in before stepping out of the cockpit, but if you go overboard, you will end up being dragged alongside the cockpit, rather than 6-feet behind the transom (which is where you'd be if your jacklines were led to a stern cleat). The idea is that if you're alongside the cockpit you have a better chance of clambering back over the rail, or getting dragged up by your buddies. Behind the boat you're screwed if you can't rouse the off-watch, and if someone's on-deck at the time, they'll have to completely stop the boat to get your soggy butt back up on deck.

The downside to nylon webbing is that it has to be removed when not in use, or it will weather. I don't see that as a problem though, since I don't care to have jacklines rigged for every daysail, and I always rig them before heavy weather, sailing offshore, or any night-sailing.

The alternative is to use plastic-coated wire, which can be left rigged all the time, but i've seen it wear through the gelcoat on deck, and it's a real trip if you step on it on a slanty deck since it rolls underfoot. The other issue with wire is that it is harder to see when it's ready to fail. Webbing that's getting old is more obvious, I think, whereas the wire will be weakened deep in a swage, or corroded behind the pretty plastic coating.

 

[Bob O'Toole]

Thanks. I intended to use the flat web lines. Your idea of attaching to a front cleat sounds good for interim but seems to me to put the lines too far outboard. I was thinking of installing a pad eye but am not sure of the best location. I have a large anchor locker just aft of the fore stay.

Does anyone have an Ericson 34 rigged for Jack lines?

 

[NateHanson]

A padeye on the centerline is best. Anywhere within about 4 feet of the stem is good as you can reach any part of the bow on your 6 foot tether.

Nate

 

[Bob O'Toole]

Jacklines

Thanks. I thought that would be a good location but your confirmation helped. How much strength should the pad eye have and what size backing plate would you use?

 

[NateHanson]

I'm stretching back in my memory now, but I want to say that I've read 5000 pounds or so is a good rating for padeye/jackline/harness/tether etc stuff. Probably best to double check that since my recollection is hazy.

Mounting will depend on your deck construction. If the deck is cored at the mounting point, it wouldn't be a bad idea to clear away a patch of balsa or foam core material from below, by cutting a 1" hole (tapered much wider at the bottom of the inner skin than at the top of the inner skin), and scraping out core with a L-shapped tool, then filling that void with thickened epoxy, and glassing a patch over the tapered hole you made in the inner skin.

I've used 1/4" aluminum backing for that sort of thing, about 4-6" square, but that's probably overkill. Maybe one of the engineer/designer types on here could give a more technical answer.

Nate

 

[Sven]

Tubular vs flat webbing ?

Pros and cons ?

Thanks,


-Sven

 

[NateHanson]

I'm not sure, actually.

Come to think of it, I think the Jack Lines I bought most recently (purpose-made product from Port Supply) are flat webbing, so I guess it doesn't matter too much. Our previous jacklines were tubular, so I think that's why I mentioned it.

I have heard of people putting cable inside tubular webbing, to get the strength of wire, without the noise, chafe, or rolliness of coated wire.

 

[Bob O'Toole]

Thanks, Good advice from all. More suggestions will be most welcome.

 

[Guy Stevens]

Tublar dude....

Tubular or Military webbing has between 2 and 4 times the working and break strength of flat webbing. It is slightly less forgiving to chafe, and hates being left out in the sun, but then again any nylon does.

The question of where to put the jack lines is one that I have worked with extensively. I like mine to go from the forward cleat to the aft cleat via the main cap shrouds, about 4 feet up. I seize a D ring on cap shrouds, and run the webbing through it. This gets my teather off of the deck so as to leave the off watch sleeping, and get the teather out from under my feet. The other advantage is that if I do go overboard I can get myself back on the boat. Something that is impossible if you have the jack lines on the deck.

I also like to have something to connect the teather to on the mast, so I feel safer there.

 

[Sven]

Hi Guy,

The other advantage is that if I do go overboard I can get myself back on the boat. Something that is impossible if you have the jack lines on the deck.

Care to elaborate ?

I can imagine a number of answers but would like to hear what you had in mind.

Thanks,


-Sven

 

[Bob O'Toole]

Tieing to the shrouds sounds fine. I am not familiar with the term "cap shroud". What is it?

 

[NateHanson]

Cap shrouds go to the top of the mast. aka "uppers"

Guy, I like your idea for keeping the tether shackle off the deck, but I think I would find it bothersome to unclip and reclip my tether at the shrouds, does that bug you?

Also, how do you attach a D ring to the shroud strongly enough that it won't slide down if you fall overboard and are hanging from that D-ring?

Nate

 

[Seth]

D-ring attachment

Use the U-bolt where the turnbuckles attach-should be enough room for a D ring/shackle-

 

[gareth harris]

If anyone has any pictures of where they have mounted hard points for jack lines, they would help me rebuild my deck.

Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972

 

[Gord Bell]

Having just done a little run out in the open water( see Journey in the cruising section), I used the 2 mooring cleats that I have on the fore deck, which are backed with a 6 inch square by 1/4 inch thick alunimum plate. Ran the lines back to the aft mooring cleats which are mounted the same way the forward ones are. I also run a short line in the cockpit foot well so that I had something to attach to at all times. For the jack line itself I used 5/8 inch 3 strand rope that had an eye splice at on end and the other end I tied off using a bowline, did the same for the short foot well line.
cheers Gord Bell
Huckleberry E35-2

 

[Guy Stevens]

Sorry, forgot to check bak on this one.

I atttach a d ring using a seizing to the shrouds just about chest level for the crew and I (Simular sized wife).

D ring Seizing..... first, lanocoat about 3 inches of the stay where you want to attach the d-ring. Then wrap with friction tape, then serve with a nice marlow wipping twine. (Black or white is fine, black a bit more traditional, but white more yachty ) Basically what you have is a modern parceled and served section of shroud. Then lash the d ring to the parcel and served bit, and tighten with frapping turns. (This took a lot longer to type than it does to do, really.) Takes at most for the first one that you do about 20 minutes, about 10 by the second, and if the stuff is handy about 5 after the second one. This will hold more that the 250+ pounds that I weigh with my foulies and cold weather gear on.

You will have to unclip to get past the shroud, I always have a double tether anyway, as I like to move around, and have more than one attachment point at times. Most of the time, I am going to the mast, not the bow, and don't have to unclip at all. Also I find it more bothersome always tripping over the end of my tether than I have ever found clipping and reclipping.


As for falling off of the boat and getting back on, it looks like sitting and flipping your legs back on the boat, or getting a knee up. Your feet might get wet, or your butt a bit if the boat is really heeled over, but never up to your chest, or so far under that you can't get aboard again.


Another advantage is that you have in effect a third higher life line at all times, this generally prevents going over to begin with. I will see if I have a photo of the various parts of construction around here somewhere.

 

[jmoses]

I was steered to a unique set of jack lines......~1/8" stainless steel wire encased in tubular nylon webbing after much discussion with the rigging shop (they make jack lines for some of the Pacific Cup racers and Big Boat Series folks here in San Fran). So, I settled on the alternative to either straight wire or nylon tubing alone. The webbing keeps the wire from slipping under foot while on deck and the wire will not stretch and is Ultra Violet safe. Not to mention, the breaking strength factor is something like 4,000 lbs. Each end has a swaged eye that terminates the nylon tubing and wire and will not slip, come undone with no tension or end up in a tangled knot. It's attached to folding pad eyes via Wichard twisted shackles.

The problem with nylon webbing is the knot slipping when wet combined with UV degredation and stretching (especially when wet). The wire is nasty when stepped on and will roll when under foot. Combine them and yu get the best of both.

I think the 2 sets of jack lines were around $150.00 (not inluding hardware to mount).

I ended up with 2 pairs - one set for each side of the cockpit and one set down either deck to the bow. After much research, I settled on Wichard folding pad-eyes all around, which were thru-bolted to Al. backing plates (8 in total). The jack line eyes are then attached to the pad eyes via Wichard safety shackles. All the hardware was above the breaking stength of the wire/tubing combo. I was reluctant to tie off to cleats as there needs to be a mechanical connection to be absolutely sure the lines won't slip or come undone when no tension is on the lines (again, the rig shop has found this to occur on occasion). Hence the need for a positive mechanical connection.

To further enhance safety, I went with dual Wichard safety clip tethers- one @1 meter and the other @ 2 meters which clip to Type V harness/PFDs. This way in the cockpit or at the mast one is clipped at 1 meter and on deck the 2 meter suffices. Several people have drowned here in the San Fran bay area whilst being on long tethers and screaming down-wind.....not good.

At the time (5 years ago), super low-stretch high-tech line was just too expensive for jack lines (3.00 a foot or so), but now the cost is comparable. As a result, the rigging shop now makes super low-stretch jack lines from high-tech line (similar to stanchion life lines). I would probably go this route now instead of any of the above options (wire, tubing or combo).

John M.

 

[gareth harris]

John - any chance you could post some pictures of your system?
Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972

 

[jmoses]

Jack Line pics

Gareth,

If you look under my 1st post under "Anchor rollers" you'll find the first picture in the set has the jack lines showing on the bow. That should give you an idea how I installed the lines on the bow anyway.

The cockpit ones are mounted just underneath the teak coaming boards with large backing plates.

John