Internal Lazy Jack system

[ted_reshetiloff]

Someone asked me to post a description of the lazyjack system i have on Escape Plan our E-38 so here goes. First off I will suggest anyone considering lazy jacks to read Guys article on building your own the arrangement of legs in my system is very close to his. Second I must give credit to the splicing and install of my setup to Southbound Cruising Service in Annapolis. A rigging shop where I worked for 2008 as CFO and business manager. The system was my second quarter bonus... they can reached at 410-626-6060 and www.southboundcruising.com

The system is constructed of 1/8" Dyneema single braid around 250' several small stainless eye straps or fairleads, 2 Harken 19mm micro swivel blocks, a small cam cleat with fairlead, fastners, lifeseal for corrosion protection, and about 15' of 1/4" salsa for the control line. The system has 3 legs and each side runs up the mast to blocks attached to bottom of the the upper spreaders. The harken blocks are mounted about 8 inches out from the mast. This keeps the lazy jacks from slapping on the mast when stored. Each of the two lines then leads from the blocks to the mast where they enter the spar through two small holes on either side of the mast. The holes are about 2 feet down the mast from the upper spreaders so the lead into the mast is at a fair enough angle. The lines then lead down inside the mast where they are spliced together and then to the 1/4" salsa. This allows a single point of control for the lazy jacks. The salsa exits the mast just above the goosneck on the port side and leads to a cam cleat with a fairlead.

The lazy jacks are stored when not being used by easing the line and hooking the lazy jacks around the reef hooks at the gooseneck then snugging up. This way a conventional sailcover can be used without all the slits and snaps for the lazy jacks. This also means that when we hoist the main there is no way the lazyjacks can get fouled on the leech of the sail because they are stored forward. Because the control line is on the side of the mast it can easily be used at any point. The old system I had was the harken package (absolute crap IMHO) which was controlled from a cleat under the boom that was virtually inoperable with the sail flaked. There are no blocks or thimbles on the legs of the lazy jacks to chafe on the sail just dyneema with eye splices. The 1/8" dyneema has great UV resistance and is very strong. When its time to douse the main we unhook the lazy jacks from the reef hooks and snug the control line. Douse and flake the sail. Once secured with ties the lazy jacks are put away. I will try and get some photos.

 

[KanH]

I would be very interested in seeing photo's

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

The guys at Southbound have got some picutures of the system here:

http://s595.photobucket.com/albums/tt35/jet1143/lazy jacks/


This system is even simpler in that it just uses small bullseyes to get the lines into the mast. This system also has the control line led aft which I just have mine exiting the mast to a cam cleat on the side of the mast.

Full disclosure: I used to work for Southbound Cruising Services. The owners and employees are all my closest sailing buddies. I think they are very good at what they do. I would rather spend money on my boat with friends when possible....

 

[SurabyaKid]

Isn't this just an internal halyard variant of the Jiffy Jax system?

www.jiffyjax.com/demophotos.html

Pat

 

[Loren Beach]

The Jiffy system appears to be a knock-off of the EZJax system ("copyrighted") that dates back to the 80's.
http://www.ezjax.com/

Also, for any of these, I would never advise putting the top blocks on a spreader. The chance that it will end up, albeit not intentionally, being used as a "boom topping lift" some day is just too risky.
Note B: Ted's setup does away with the ss rings, which seems like a Great idea to protect the spar finish and reduce a bit of weight aloft.

Loren

 

[SurabyaKid]

It appears the actual patent for this system was awarded in July of 1994 to a Richard Bailey of Camas, Washington from his June 1993 application titled "Sail Control System.

See US Patent 5327842 (www.freepatentsonline.com/5327842.pdf )

The patent did anticipate the use of devices other than the stainless rings such as pulleys, splices, etc as can be seen in the drawings.

A check of the USPTO PAIRS system indicates that the patent expired in 2006 due to failure to pay maintenance fees. So at this point the idea is in the public domain for all to use.

Pat

 

[Loren Beach]

Pat, Thanks for the reference. I remember meeting Dick at several NW winter boat shows back in the 80's, as I recall, selling his sail handling system out of a booth. This was back in the days of really huge January boat shows in the old King Dome in Seattle.
I hear that the business is carried on nowadays by his son in law, but am not for certain on that detail. An Ericson that I get to go out on frequently has an EZJax system and it works very well.

Best,
Loren

 

[SurabyaKid]

Loren,

He must have pulled one over on the USPTO or what he was selling in the 80's wasn't the exact thing he patented....as by law if he had been selling it for more than one year before he applied for the patent then it would have been considered in the public domain, even if it was his idea and he was belatedly patenting it.

Pat

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

Was not aware of any patent on some spectra we spliced up on my boat. Oops.

I personally was not impressed with the easy jax setup as the materials they used I thought were pretty lousy, although I only saw their display at the boat show so maybe in application they used better stuff. Their display was with 1/4" three strand with a bunch of clanky hardware and knots that looked to me like it would just chew up your sails and rig.

1/8" dyneema wont chafe anything, has great UV resistance, wont stretch, and is rated for a huge SWL. Hell they can serve as a topping lift .

Loren you may be right on the blocks on the spreader not being so great but so far (going on 4 years now and a few thousand miles) I have not had any troubles. I suspect the #8 screws holding the blocks to the spreaders would pull out before any damage could be done to the spreader, and this keeps the lines away from the mast so the cant slap at night. Their newer approach just uses the bullseyes which is probably the way I would go if I did it again.

All in all this is no new revelation in lazy jack technology just an improvemnt on a time honored system in my opinion. Very easy to make yourself once you learn to splice single braid dyneema. Essentially the same setup as Guy posted about a while back just led internal and with only splicing.

 

[Loren Beach]

Pat makes some thoughtful observations.
Given that this is a widely-used product, and in some form or another dates back hundreds of years, it's a wonder a patent was ever issued. Then there is the market... a niche part of the whole sailing market which is small already.

Plus, no way a small operator could afford to legally defend himself against a larger entity even if there was an arguably clear patent infringement.

Actually, I like Ted's concept better -- no metal. I would probably pay a reasonable $ to have some made up for me with his hi-tech line and sliding eyes. I would use the small cheek blocks on the mast, though.

Cheers,
Loren

 

[Guy Stevens]

I am working on a write up of an even better set for internal

There is even a more interesting way to look at the problem, and I am working on a write up of it. Unfortunately the two clients that I have rigged them for have headed offshore before I could get photos of them......

The blocks need to be out on the spreaders to avoid having issues with the lazy jacks banging on the mast. Even with spectra they will make an ungodly noise in the right wind speed and direction unless they are held out away from the mast, either at the bottom or at the top.

Oh and as far as patents on lazy jacks go, I have some excellent drawings here from a book written in the 1920's about a boats that were designed and rigged in the 1850's. The patent was completely unenforceable on most of the things that are in the patent office pertaining to boats. It has been all done before.


Guy

 

[HughHarv]

Anyone tried running a line aft from a cleat mounted on the forward end of the boom to a turning block on the aft end of the boom, then up to a turning block on the mast, and then down to rings that split off to padeyes on the boom? No mast slap when deployed, couldn't say how to retract though.

 

[SurabyaKid]

On the strange world of patentability and enforceability

I concurr with both Loren & Guy that given the length of time man has been sailing, that some form of this system was probably used in the past.

In the patenting process, the patent applicant has an obligation to search and disclose known prior art as well as to distinguish it from their invention, but not an obligation to search for every possible piece of prior art since the beginning of time. The patent examiner will look for additional pieces of disqualifying art, but if it is an out of print 1920's book not commonly referenced in todays electronic media world, then a patent may be granted even if there was existing disqualifying art.

The granted patent would be enforceable until the USPTO agreed to review and revoke the patent in light of disqualifying art. Until the patent is revoked the owner of the patent could sue for infringement and would probably prevail as a local court generally has to defer to the judgement of the USPTO's expertise as to patentability. Often the defense will use delaying tactics in the infringement lawsuit and vigorously try to get the USPTO to revoke the patent prior to losing the infringement lawsuit. This happens all the time in the IT field as well as others. I'm not saying it's right, but it is the process. Loren's observation about size matters in this type of dispute is spot on.

Pat

 

[Loren Beach]

Invisible Splice!

How does one set up the internal part of this tackle, coming down from both sides of the spar? Busy place, inside that Kenyon on our boat....
There is a wiring tube in there, plus halyards: main, jib, two wing halyards, and the pole lift. Dropping anything else down without getting a twist around one or more of the existing gang of lines would be quite a challenge, IMHO.

Ted's system sounds like somehow both of the lines are spliced to a single down haul line inside the spar... Kinda challenging to do splicing in there, so I obviously do not understand how it works! :nerd:

I think that I would be happy with both synthetic lines led down the outside, led over a couple of small bullet blocks up near the upper spreader location. While this might be noisy sometimes, it does not seem to ever be a problem on two other boats that have this type of down-lead (EZJax) that I crew on a lot.

One note on the cleat(s) at the bottom for the lines, is that something like a Lance Cleat, Spinlock PXR, or a clam cleat might be just a good.

Loren

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

The two lines are spliced together then the single line is spliced to a piece of 1/4" Salsa for handling. To do the splice we led the two lines out of the exit in the mast, then once the splicing was done we pulled them back in. We kept all the other halyards tight while fishing the spectra through the mast and nothing has tangled or hung up. We kept the lines out on the spreaders for the same reason Guy mentions. Thats also why I wanted them led internal and to a single control point. Makes deploying and retreiving vwery simple esp in bad weather. IIRC Southbound sells the whole system installed for around $700, but much of that cost is their labor at $90/hour. I think we needed around 120' of 1/8" dyneema and maybe 30' of salsa.