Halyard tension and friction
I hope my input is not too wordy... but your boat has enough displacement and sail area where you are well into the gray area of whether or not to "need" a winch to get halyard tension correct.
I have crewed on an E- 27 with the halyard led aft to a single-speed housetop winch (just like larger boats) and it worked fine. I note that this "fix" does add complexity and more friction.
I used to sail a similar size boat with a fractional rig and a larger main -- we considered the winches vital.
OTOH, as you have noticed, adding a winch to the mast will help your problem and involve the least other changes... but only after solving the winch-mounting quandary.
I have seen welded aluminum flat mounting pads, and contoured teak or plastic pads used to mate the flat winch base to a curved mast side. All had problems with the SS fastenings intereacting with the aluminum alloy mast over the years. Some yacht builders would put a turning block at the mast base and then locate the winch on the house top a foot or so away (C‡C and Tartan, to name two).
If you read the fine rigging book by Brion Toss, one of his big lessons is to always look at rigging problems in terms of the whole load path and not just get distracted by one part of it.
In hoisting your main, start with the place where you shackle on to the headboard just above the boom and... follow the path.
First, the slugs have to ride up the extrusion with no binding or undue friction. Second, the halyard does a high-friction 180 degree turn over one (or two) sheaves at the masthead. With a cleat at the base of the mast the friction load stops there...
Note that some of our common "solutions" add more friction -- like a turning block at the base, and a cheek block to route it aft, and then a winch by the hatch. Note that winches, whether on the spar or aft, also have their own built-in frictional losses. We used a can of MacLube on slugs once or twice a season, and on all sheave axles -- it helps a lot.
Let's be sure we first understand what you have now -- external halyard? all line or is it wire halyard with a rope tail?
Then, can you (or some light weight friend) be hauled up there to lube up the axle of the masthead sheave(s)?
In short, do not be too quick to drill holes in the mast wall.
There are a lot of experienced E-27 sailors on this site, and they will help you as best they can. Lastly, if you have a digi camera, you can post small pics of your cleat, sail slugs and whatever else seems pertinent which will help fellow Ericson owners all over the country assist in the diagnosis.
:nerd:
Welcome to the group!
Loren in Portland, OR
I hope my input is not too wordy... but your boat has enough displacement and sail area where you are well into the gray area of whether or not to "need" a winch to get halyard tension correct.
I have crewed on an E- 27 with the halyard led aft to a single-speed housetop winch (just like larger boats) and it worked fine. I note that this "fix" does add complexity and more friction.
I used to sail a similar size boat with a fractional rig and a larger main -- we considered the winches vital.
OTOH, as you have noticed, adding a winch to the mast will help your problem and involve the least other changes... but only after solving the winch-mounting quandary.
I have seen welded aluminum flat mounting pads, and contoured teak or plastic pads used to mate the flat winch base to a curved mast side. All had problems with the SS fastenings intereacting with the aluminum alloy mast over the years. Some yacht builders would put a turning block at the mast base and then locate the winch on the house top a foot or so away (C‡C and Tartan, to name two).
If you read the fine rigging book by Brion Toss, one of his big lessons is to always look at rigging problems in terms of the whole load path and not just get distracted by one part of it.
In hoisting your main, start with the place where you shackle on to the headboard just above the boom and... follow the path.
First, the slugs have to ride up the extrusion with no binding or undue friction. Second, the halyard does a high-friction 180 degree turn over one (or two) sheaves at the masthead. With a cleat at the base of the mast the friction load stops there...
Note that some of our common "solutions" add more friction -- like a turning block at the base, and a cheek block to route it aft, and then a winch by the hatch. Note that winches, whether on the spar or aft, also have their own built-in frictional losses. We used a can of MacLube on slugs once or twice a season, and on all sheave axles -- it helps a lot.
Let's be sure we first understand what you have now -- external halyard? all line or is it wire halyard with a rope tail? Then, can you (or some light weight friend) be hauled up there to lube up the axle of the masthead sheave(s)?
In short, do not be too quick to drill holes in the mast wall.
There are a lot of experienced E-27 sailors on this site, and they will help you as best they can. Lastly, if you have a digi camera, you can post small pics of your cleat, sail slugs and whatever else seems pertinent which will help fellow Ericson owners all over the country assist in the diagnosis.
:nerd:
Welcome to the group!
Loren in Portland, OR
Morgan Stinemetz
Moderator
Suggestion--
Let the pros at a boat yard take care of it. They have done it all before.
Morgan Stinemetz
Let the pros at a boat yard take care of it. They have done it all before.
Morgan Stinemetz
This would be a very good time to consider leading those halyards to the cockpit. I did this only 5 weeks ago and can provide you with pictures and contacts.
My boat is also an E27. I will be out of pocket for a few days and will return Friday.
I used Garhauer blocks, organizer, clutches and mast plate. The blocks cost approx $20 each plus shipping. Stainless steel mast plate around $27. The organizer I used was had four sheaves, but you may not need that many. A 3 rope clutch was $129. Best to get it done the way you'll eventually want to. Now for the winch, a Lewmar 16 should be able to do the job. I used a self tailing winch but with the clutch you really don't have to.
Let me know if this is a path you'll want to take. A bit more than the mast winch solution, but you'll also be set up for the long term, working on the lines and halyards from your cockpit. It sure beats having to get on the deck when you're shorthanded.
Fair winds,
Renovatio
E27
My boat is also an E27. I will be out of pocket for a few days and will return Friday.
I used Garhauer blocks, organizer, clutches and mast plate. The blocks cost approx $20 each plus shipping. Stainless steel mast plate around $27. The organizer I used was had four sheaves, but you may not need that many. A 3 rope clutch was $129. Best to get it done the way you'll eventually want to. Now for the winch, a Lewmar 16 should be able to do the job. I used a self tailing winch but with the clutch you really don't have to.
Let me know if this is a path you'll want to take. A bit more than the mast winch solution, but you'll also be set up for the long term, working on the lines and halyards from your cockpit. It sure beats having to get on the deck when you're shorthanded.
Fair winds,
Renovatio
E27
When is a boat like a cow ?
Our first boat was a Pearson 27. We learned a technique from a friend known as "milking the halyard". To do this you need two people. One holds the halyard tightly at least 90 degrees angle to the cleat after it has turned part of the way round the cleat. The more angle there the better. The second person grasps the halyard like a bow string and pulls back at 90 degrees from the mast and hard as they can. Then the first person pulls in some of the slack as the second person releases slowly. This worked well for us on the Pearson. When the second person can't pull any more slack without the first person giving up slack, the milking is done and one hopes that the halyard is tight enough.
The trick here is instead of the second person pulling directly down on the halyard, their effort is multiplied like a lever by pulling at 90 degrees to the mast and halyard.
Until you're able to do the upgraded rigging that is being discussed, the milking method may come in handy.
Our first boat was a Pearson 27. We learned a technique from a friend known as "milking the halyard". To do this you need two people. One holds the halyard tightly at least 90 degrees angle to the cleat after it has turned part of the way round the cleat. The more angle there the better. The second person grasps the halyard like a bow string and pulls back at 90 degrees from the mast and hard as they can. Then the first person pulls in some of the slack as the second person releases slowly. This worked well for us on the Pearson. When the second person can't pull any more slack without the first person giving up slack, the milking is done and one hopes that the halyard is tight enough.
The trick here is instead of the second person pulling directly down on the halyard, their effort is multiplied like a lever by pulling at 90 degrees to the mast and halyard.
Until you're able to do the upgraded rigging that is being discussed, the milking method may come in handy.
Last edited:
Halyard Controls Aft
Just moved my halyards aft on my 73 E-27. Added a winch to the cabin top and a double Lewmar rope clutch. Should'a bought a triple! Forgot about the reef lines.
My installation went well and I'll try to post pictures later. Be sure to use blocks with ball bearing.
Just moved my halyards aft on my 73 E-27. Added a winch to the cabin top and a double Lewmar rope clutch. Should'a bought a triple!
Forgot about the reef lines. My installation went well and I'll try to post pictures later. Be sure to use blocks with ball bearing.
ron7546
Member II
Reef lines
That is another issue - - I have no means of reefing the main (jib is roller furling) "bluenote" may have been set up for reefing at one time,as there are blocks on the boom and 2 grommets up the luff and 2 on the leech but no lines.I see a Harken system in West Marine which they say will work on a boat up to 27 ft.Quite honestly I haven`t addressed that issue yet.Any ideas?
Some photos would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Ron
"Bluenote"
That is another issue - - I have no means of reefing the main (jib is roller furling) "bluenote" may have been set up for reefing at one time,as there are blocks on the boom and 2 grommets up the luff and 2 on the leech but no lines.I see a Harken system in West Marine which they say will work on a boat up to 27 ft.Quite honestly I haven`t addressed that issue yet.Any ideas?
Some photos would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Ron
"Bluenote"
Nigel Barron
Notorious Iconoclast
If the main already has grommets, a simple way would be to use the cunningham to hold down the new tack, and use a sailtie to take care of the clew. Tie it around the boom tight, and leave a loop to attach your outhaul to and get tension to flatten it. Use another sailtie around the mast and through the new tack where the cunningham is. Thats about it.
Otherwise single line reefing is the way to go. If you really have to reef, the less people out of the cockpit the better.
Otherwise single line reefing is the way to go. If you really have to reef, the less people out of the cockpit the better.
E 32 main halyard winch
the mast on my E32 will soon be down, and would like to know if anyone has bypassed the old style main halyard winch(with brake) by converting it to the deck. If you have done this conversion please advise me on the cabin top winch and blocks required to get an all rope halyard aft to the cockpit. Right now the main is ALL wire. I could use new tech rope instead.
the mast on my E32 will soon be down, and would like to know if anyone has bypassed the old style main halyard winch(with brake) by converting it to the deck. If you have done this conversion please advise me on the cabin top winch and blocks required to get an all rope halyard aft to the cockpit. Right now the main is ALL wire. I could use new tech rope instead.