Frigoboat Refrigeration - dividing the box?

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
I heard this week about Frigoboat and their divided refrigerator boxes. Is there anyone who has partitioned their refrigerator and uses the Frigoboat keel-cooled unit with it?

Updating or replacing the 10 year old refrigeration unit on our 1980 E38 is becoming more of an imperative after the past two cruising seasons. Our current air-cooled Adler-Barbour compressor/heat exchanger is working fine, but it suffers from installation-related issues that greatly affect the power draw and the length of time food lasts in the refrigerator section. We would like to be able to go two weeks without touching a dock and this is a limitation.

We have the aft starboard galley and the engine is under the companionway. The compressor/heat exchanger is located less than a foot from the engine compartment in the forward end of the starboard lazarette, and exhausts under the sink. Even though the engine area is pretty well insulated, after a couple hours of motoring, the area becomes heat saturated and the fridge temperature goes from 37-40 deg. F to the mid 40's or higher, and stays up until a couple hours after engine stop. We open up engine ports and the lazarette lid to help get the heat out, but our milk and other perishables spoil days sooner than they should. The unit runs quite a bit more getting the temp back down, as you can imagine. Our lid is fairly well insulated with 2+ inches of plastic enclosed foam.

I've read good reviews of the Frigoboat system with the keel cooler here on the board. My head and gut say this is probably the way to go.

Our friendly advisor at Electric Boat in Seattle told us that Frigoboat offers a fan-thermostat unit that facilitates a divided box. I had never heard of this in a small boat, but it makes sense. Essentially it's the same way a 'regular' refrigerator is built. We will have to build in a partition, which doesn't sound too hard. This configuration should also help us with our access problems, as the L-shaped box with the rectangular box-shaped cold plate makes the opening crowded and restricts access to the back end of the box.

In my next post I may add some photos. At the upcoming Seattle Boat show we'll be taking our ideas and cubic-foot measurements to the vendors and see what they have to say. We'll also go aboard a few boats and see how they did the fridges. If we do replace the unit I'll have a used Adler-Barbour for sale this spring.
 

Randy Rutledge

Sustaining Member
Have you considered changing to a water bath condenser for your old unit? Sail magazine had a set of drawings and the how to description a year or so ago. They used a small and a large tube The small tube was placed inside of the large tube then a T was soldered on each end of the larger tube then a reducer that sealed the ends of the large tube to the smaller tube then the needed fittings and flex line fitted to the ends of the smaller tube and the ends of the old tubes from the compressor unit. A pump connected between a through hull pickup and one of the T fittings of the condenser and a discharge tube to a through hull for the discharge water was fitted to the other T.
 

Sid

BOATBUMMS
Craig
I have a 36c and my motor is next to the ice box as well. When I first bought the boat I was a bit disappointed at the performance of the ice box .
It would hold 2 blocks of ice and food for about 2 1/2 to 3 days:confused:. I did several things to change that. (1) made a loop in the drain tube so cold air would not escape. (2) Replaced the lid seal with one that would work on the lid as well as on the box. (3)As for the area near the motor I used 2" insulation and added 6" to that bulkhead area as that is under the sink. That was a big improvement holding time went to a week. That was good for awhile but later I wanted to put in a reefer system and added 2" of insulation to the inside of the box and glassed it in, then the holding time for 2 blocks of ice went to 2 weeks. Then it was ready for a reefer unit. We put in a Glacier Bay 12v system with a cold plate. We do not have a freezer. The unit only runs about 17min every 8 or 9 hours depending on how many times you go into it, and keeps the temp at 37 to 40. The more stuff in it the better. This unit has been in the boat for 12 years with one hiccup and that was the thermo probe for the plate which was a quick replacement. We have been cruising the last 10 yrs and use it every day. The newer Glacier Bay units are smaller and more efficient.
Sid and Manuela, In and On "Paradise" 36c #51
 

chaco

Member III
Ice Box Conversions

After burning up a NovaKold System due to lack of Condensor Fan airflow...
I have installed an Adler Barbour Air Cooled System with Horizontal Evaporator
and am in the process of the Ice Box Freezer/Fridge seperation installation.
Check out www.waecousa.com - Adler/Barbour - Repairs - Product Manuals.
There are Detailed Design and Installation Guides for the Ice Box Seperation.
No matter what cooling source you have, Ice Box Conversion Evaporators
work the same. The Design Guide will give you ideas to make the Seperator
installation work with your specific system. Adler/Barbour also offers a
Spillover Kit to Automatically Control the Temperature of the freezer and
fridge compartments.

Good Luck to you :egrin: :egrin:
 

Bob Robertson

Member III
Hi Craig,

We installed a new Frigoboat system over a year ago in our Ericson 38. It is remarkably efficient. We have the evaporator listed below. Ours doesn't have a door on the evaporator, but we don't have any problems keeping things within the evaporator completely frozen and it's big enough to store a bag of ice plus some ice cream, chicken, etc.

Enjoy,
Bob

160H Evaporator - 12.5"w x 4.5”h x 8.5”d
 
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rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
Three people in my club have the Frigoboat keelcooler setup. They are all very happy with it, they all cruise and say it is very efficient. RT
 

Guy Stevens

Moderator
Moderator
Why spend the extra money on a new system

The issue here is that your condenser is too hot. There are three very easy and in expensive solutions to this problem. Thankfully you are not the first person in the world to have this problem. Here are a few solutions:

One move the compressor / Condenser sled to another location that is not that hot. This would be a lot better for the compressor as they need to be cooled too to have a long life.

The other option would be to install water cooling (Which is what the keel cooler model is). Easy to install water cooling with a little soldering and 2 or three parts. And since it is not a mission critical device, (ie you are not going to die without cold beer), you can use an existing thru hull or two.

How much extra copper tubing do you have on this setup right now? Adler Barbor always ships with about 6 feet, are you using all of it? Is the system 134a? (If it is only 10 years old it should be).

Water cooling can be added in two ways:
1> water is pumped through a coaxial (Tube within a tube) cooler, water is pumped through the inner tube, and coolant through the outer tube. Works well.

http://www.rparts.com/Catalog/Major_Components/condensers_&_evaporators/condensers_&_evaporators.asp The $82.00 one is overkill for your unit.

Installation: Recover the gas from the system, cut tubing from the compressor to the condenser, install the cooler in the cut tube, vacuum unit down, refill with r134a. Hook a small pump to a tee in an existing below the water line through hull that is not the main engine. (Say the head intake?). And back out through a thru hull above the maximum heeled waterline (Substitute sinks, head intakes whatever here for what is closer for you, DON"T USE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE ENGINE.)

2> Use the same coaxial cooler and Again drain system of refrigerant, cut the line to the condenser, and install this new cooler in that line. Tee your hose coming out of the biggest freshwater tank that you have and put a put a small pump after the T, feed the other end of the loop back into the vent line of the tank, and you a have a fresh water cooling system. The pump will last a long long time, the water cooled condenser is not part of a possible electrolysis loop, and the whole thing (Even if you pay someone $200.00 to do the soldering on the pipes, the vacuum and the refill of r134a) is a lot lot less expensive than a new unit. Most people never really notice an increase in the water temp in the tank. (Also always leave some water in the tank so that the pump can pump it, and the reefer water condenser works.)


2a> If you are in faroffistan Take a whole bunch of refrigeration grade copper tubing, say 12 feet or so, and a spring bender, and bend it into a coil that will fit inside one of those large water filter housing (The ones made to go under the sink in your house). Glue a tube that goes from the central hole in the inside of the filter lid to the bottom of the filter. (This takes the cold water to the bottom!). (5200 works here, and give you a chance to get gooey!) Then drill a couple of holes in the top that the copper tube can come out of, (Seal it with 5200, there is little pressure involved here). Again drain system of refrigerant, cut the line to the condenser, and install this new cooler in that line. Cheap way is less than $40.00 Coaxial cooler from R-parts is $83.00 you decide which is more fun the funky experiment or drinking beer. Note I have done multiples of these both ways. (You can't get coaxial coolers for refrigeration in the middle of the south pacific, but you can use you supply of copper tubing, and the local hardware to make a cooler. People will pay all sorts of money to have you come up with cold beer for them when it is in the 90+ zone. :) )

So new keel cooler unit is $1,820.00 plus haul out, etc. Electrolysis issues are a possibility, and the units function poorly when either painted (owners do paint them) or when they are covered with marine growth. You can convert your unit for less than $400.00 free if you can figure out where to move it to!

For what it is worth. This refrigeration stuff was invented in the 1873, some argue that the basic principles have not changed since Thomas Jefferson made Ice cream in 1778. Don't let the professionals (me included!) try and make this rocket science, it really is simple. http://home.howstuffworks.com/refrigerator3.htm


Guy
:)
 
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rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
That is an excellent idea Guy! I especially like the fresh water setup. What type/brand/spec pump do you recommend for this mod? How do you switch the pump on and off? Relay slaved to compressor cycle? I have an HVAC guy in my club that works for beer..... :) RT
 

Guy Stevens

Moderator
Moderator
Pump relay etc

Most refrigeration guys use a Marsh pump, however I like the littlest flojet bait well pump better, it lasts longer and as less expensive.

The pump is switched on with a relay controlled by the same point on the controller that normally switches on the fan. I like to always add a relay here, as it will eliminate any issues with drawing too much amperage on the controller and burning it out.

Guy
:)
 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
NwkwMwd!

Guess who put the 'guy' in McGuyver? :cool:

Thanks for the Frigoboat testimonials. This owner will not paint the keel cooler. But I might hit my head on it while painting nearby. And I will definitely look at more insulation when the time comes to get into the fridge solution. I will also be yanking the double sink out and that might open up some access to insulate the box. At the show I will be talking to all the fridge vendors I can find. Getting lots of encouragement on the Frigoboat, so the margins must be good, and we all know the labor is expensive.

The entire stern of the boat is affected by the engine heat (lazarettes, too), or is occupied by other systems/boat stuff that it wouldn't kill me to get rid of. I would have to make some other sacrifices to move the condenser unit forward. I love it when you say 'free' though. Procrastination sometimes begets the cheap and elegant idea.

Water cooling, while workable and cheap, just doesn't thrill me. I sorta like the fresh water idea, though, too. Nearest tank is about 10 feet away. :unsure: The water pump draw wouldn't do any more harm than the extra running time does now. Thinking of tinkling water into the tank periodically all night long. BRB. GGP.

Chaco, I will check out that website.

The reason I would consider spending the money is because I will end up with better fridge performance, improved fridge interior access, reduced power draw, less overall system complexity, less maintenance, less duct tape (I'm only marginally handy), and a nicer looking installation.

Food for thought. Thanks!
 
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Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
On Transfering Heat

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=1663&referrerid=28

There are photos of our particular installation in this thread. That outside sintered bronze pad that contains the coolant coil is really very low-height on the boat bottom, FWIW.
Whether you used a pump to run water thru an internal heat exchanger or the passive outside "keel cooler" you will like the efficiency, IMO, compared to using an air-transfer radiator inside the boat.

I have a friend that put in a pump system for this several years ago on his boat, and he does admit that that water pump draws some measurable power... And, if that pump fails... :(

Just something to consider.

Best,
Loren
 
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