"Free" E30+ ??

[swampyankee]

Most of my boats have been bargains or at least really good deals, and I'm always on the lookout. This one caught my eye. It's an '84 E30+ in Haddam, CT that the boatyard owner has taken possession of and is offering for free. Ad says needs cleanup and maintenance, but when I spoke to the yard owner he said it had taken on water on land. Don't know to what extent but I can assume the cabin sole is waterlogged. I've done a number of "revival from the dead" projects in the past and I know the true cost of a "free" boat. But I'm here to inquire about whether the quality, sailing characteristics, and "bones" of the boat would make it a worthy project. I'm looking at retirement soon so I will have some more time to dedicate to the project. The ad is here:

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Items of concern would be the condition of the Universal diesel (worst case, find a replacement - been there, done that), and what looks like rust at the keel/hull join. Anyone with experience with repairs to that area?

 

[Frank Langer]

We love our 1984 E30+. She sails beautifully on our west coast, has a very comfortable interior and has served us well for over 16 years. She is our third boat, and we have over thirty years sailing experience.
I can't comment on the condition or advisability of taking on this free boat.
Frank

 

[swampyankee]

Nor would I want you to. There are too many folks eager to offer their sage advice as to how much a "free" boat actually costs. LOL

But one thing I read in reviews is that the 30+ is initially tender. Any opinions on that? And also, it appears the keel is a bolt-on cast iron affair. Any experience or close-up and personal views about how it is attached or faired in? I've heard of people having to re-bed keels (especially with Catalina 30's) and I don't know how daunting a task that would be.

 

[Loren Beach]

it appears the keel is a bolt-on cast iron affair.

Absolutely not. It's Lead.
And the problem with the Cat 30 is not so much as a need to rebed but the failure of the internal plywood coring inside the hull where the keel was bolted on the late 70's. The wood rotted and the keel slowly dropped downwards. I am no engineer, but I believe that the whole sump area was under engineered.
Keel re-bedding is one of those preventative maintenance chores on 40 year old boats that many owners do like to contemplate. It's actually pretty straightforward on a well engineered and solid boat like an Ericson. We had it done on our boat.
The yard will brace up the keel, remove the nuts and washers, lift the boat up a foot or so, clean up the mating surfaces, and lay on some 5200, and lower it down. Then properly torque up the nuts.
Then put it on your "to do" list, for 40 years later.

As for tenderness, many great sailing boats (especially in light air where wetted surface really slows a hull down) will have slack bilges and will heel some before stiffening up a lot. So yeah, initial tenderness might be real, but it's a good thing. Our first boat was a Ray Richards-designed Ranger 20, and it was fast and fun to sail in light air (which we get a lot of) for those reasons.
The best info will come from other owners, tho. Frank has a lot of good information to impart from a lot of hours/days/months under sail and being out cruising.

Keep asking Questions!

 

[Frank Langer]

Although the E30+ is sometimes considered to be initially tender, that is such a subjective perspective it's hard to say. We have sailed in up to 35 knots wind and our boat managed better than we did--she was her usual self, we were a little on edge. I normally put the first reef in at about 18 knots and the second at about 23 knots. I have a 125% furling headsail, which I will furl a bit starting at about 16 knots, increasing the furled amount a bit in heavier air. This boat also sails well in as little as 4 knots, and is a very responsive boat, fast for it's size.

As Loren has said above, the keel is lead, not iron. We have rebedded ours, and it was as he reported though I chose to use epoxy rather than either Sikaflex 291 or 5200. There are seven stainless steel bolts holding it in place. My greatest concern in your situation would be water leaks and resulting damage to the teak interior.
Frank

 

[swampyankee]

Good to know about the keel, thanx!
And I had heard the dread keel separation dubbed the "Catalina smile" was more of a structure issue.

As far as tenderness - my first sailing experience with my current wife was on an S2 9.2a, 30 footer, which she had no issues with heeling over. But after a few years of being away from sailing we owned a Bristol 31.1 K/CB and she had a hard time with the heeling issue. Not sure if it was just due to her "forgetting" what it was like to heel over or if the Bristol 31.1 was that much more tender. It didn't seem so to me.
My first 20 years of sailing was on trailerable sailboats from 22 to 26 feet so I'm used to sailing "on the edge" LOL

 

[Alan Gomes]

And the problem with the Cat 30 is not so much as a need to rebed but the failure of the internal plywood coring inside the hull where the keel was bolted on the late 70's. The wood rotted and the keel slowly dropped downwards. I am no engineer, but I believe that the whole sump area was under engineered.

Catalina did away with that around 1988. They specified a glass repair for the earlier boats that, while not trivial, was not too onerous, either.

 

[swampyankee]

"My greatest concern in your situation would be water leaks and resulting damage to the teak interior.
Frank"

I have to assume the cabin sole has been destroyed by the water damage. Although, our S2 had been on the hard, neglected (owners had moved to FL) for about 5 years before we bought it and had taken on quite a bit of water. When we were looking at it I hand-pumped about 40 gallons out of the bilge. Even with that much water, it never rose to the cabin sole.

 

[bigd14]

With all the usual caveats about free boats aren’t free if you are willing to put in the work and $$ the 30+ is a good solid boat. Ours is a bit tender but that’s probably due to old bagged out sails more than anything. I think I would be most worried about the compression post and bulkhead having rot. That would be a major project. Some of the 30+ boats have required reinforcement of this area. Frank, I think I remember your boat had some kind of fix done for the compression post?

 

[Frank Langer]

With all the usual caveats about free boats aren’t free if you are willing to put in the work and $$ the 30+ is a good solid boat. Ours is a bit tender but that’s probably due to old bagged out sails more than anything. I think I would be most worried about the compression post and bulkhead having rot. That would be a major project. Some of the 30+ boats have required reinforcement of this area. Frank, I think I remember your boat had some kind of fix done for the compression post?

Yes our boat and many others, not only E30+, added a metal or wood cross beam support under the deck on top of the compression post.
Frank

 

[swampyankee]

I'd consider this boat to be a project and as such would expect to be working on it for at least a year before I was ready to launch. To replace a bulkhead and/or compression post would be one of the major tasks, but maybe not a deal-killer. I would think an engine rebuild or replacement would be right up there as well. I replaced the 1 lunger Yanmar with a good used Westerbeke in our S2, which required some re-engineering of mounts, exhaust, etc. It was kind of a fun project.
BTW, I'm curious about what I took to be rust at the top of the keel and on the rudder as well. I won't be able to get to see this boat in person for another week or so. Take a look of the attached pic and tell me what you think it might be.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

Do you know how long it's been on the hard? Unpainted epoxy can discolor a great deal from UV. I'd think if it had been on land for a while the rust would have 'drooled' down onto the the surface of keel and rudder. This appears restricted to just the areas which might be unpainted repairs. Also, the only source of rust would be the (stainless) keel bolts, which usually don't produce more typical orange rust and wouldn't account for this pattern. It would be interesting to see some more detail photos if you get a chance. Good luck.

 

[swampyankee]

Good point. I hadn't thought of that but if it were rust there would be stains streaking down from the rust points. I'm hopeing to call the marina and hopefully get more of the story today.

 

[swampyankee]

So I spoke with the marina owner about the E30+. He said the previous owner was outfitting her for some extensive coastal cruising. He apparently had struck a rock with the keel and brought it to the marina for inspection and repair of keel and rudder. They ground away the keel/hull joint to inspect for damage and found none so they glassed both back up but did not fair and paint. Hence the darker color in the pic which apparently is just raw fiberglass. The keel did receive a pretty good ding to the bottom leading edge of the keel so the lead will need to be reshaped to fix it. The boat owner went back to NC and never returned so the yard took possession of the boat. Somewhere along the way they were checking some of the long-term storage boats and found water in them so they decided to check on the E30+ and found 8-10" of water above the sole. They drilled a hole in the bilge and drained the water, leaving the hole for fitting a drain plug in the future. He did say the motor was partially submerged and the starter is toast. By the water stain on the wood adjacent to the motor as seen in the pic, I assume the alternator is also toast. He did say the motor still turns by hand so I won't know until I pull the dipstick or drain a bit of oil whether it took water into the crankcase. He said the interior will need a good cleaning at least and said there is mildew on the headliner, etc. I didn't ask if there were any sails aboard, but I would think they would be, for better or worse, since the boat's then-owner had left it for repairs and never returned.
But the marina owner was open to talk about it, and said I could pay a discounted rate to leave the boat there until the boats around it launch in the spring. Since it is about an hour and a half from me, I would want to transport it to a spot at the back of a boatyard somewhere closer to home. I would give the project at least a year to be ready for launch.

So now to convince SWMBO that it might be worth looking at....

 

[Loren Beach]

IF... the interior woodwork is save-able, I would just drop in a new Betamarine. At the price you are paying for the boat, this would add value and save a half-year of your time.
Opinions rendered without asking; deposit two cents. Price reduced on Fridays.
You will need to remove the sole and check on the integrity of all the wood structure where it's tabbed to the grid, anyway.

 

[bigd14]

I would also want to know all the places where water is getting into the boat. That would help identify if there are any hidden issues like core damage that would need to be addressed (in addition to the known hidden areas that have been submerged). I would hate to put a new engine in, replace and repair interior woodwork/structures and systems, then find that much of the deck is saturated and springy and needs to be recored. I would spend a lot of time sounding the deck or going after it with a moisture meter. If you can unzip the headliner you can often see where there is rot/moisture.

I too like taking something old and neglected like this and restoring it to a useful condition. The process is enjoyable, if painful at times (physically and $$). If one is going to spend the time and money to restore an old boat, an Ericson is definitely worth it. I can't say that about many of the other brands.

 

[swampyankee]

Back from vacation, we went down and got a decent look at the boat. The keel looks like it took a bit of a beating. The waterline in the cabin looks like it got just high enough to breach the shelf under the stove. The mildew is not as bad as I'd expected but it was very moist in there. We've had nothing but rain throats couple weeks so if it's still leaking in, which it is, the interior hasn't had a chance to dry out. I poked at the main bulkhead and the base of the compression post and it all seems solid. I didn't try to turn the motor over but then marina owner said it turns. The alternator and starter motor will need to be replaced at a minimum. The cushions are moist but look serviceable, although the Admiral says they got to go. The veneer along the windows is pretty rotten and wet, as if some of the windows leak. The v berth area seems to be a moisture generator. I wonder if the anchor locker is leaking, since I've read it could be a problem spot. I found 2 bags of sails, presumably a main and Genoa. They look like they were properly folded and stowed so hopefully they're in serviceable shape.
I walked then decks looking for soft spots and found none. I also tapped the decks and the hull below water line and didn't detect any soft spots. It's fully rigged with controls back to cockpit, rope clutches and good self tailing winches for jib sheets, although I would imagine the running rigging would need to be replaced. The biggest challenge would be the keel repair, and of course engine rebuild or replacement if it needs it. The rest is just cleaning and refinishing. Grunt work that we're very familiar with.

The good news is, the Admiral is on board and is already thinking about how she would tackle refinishing the interior. I took multiple pics to jog my memory of what I saw. I need to talk to the marina owner and see what it would take to claim ownership, and store it there until at least June when I'd either have it moved or renew a storage contract. The boat is only about an hour away, and the ride is not bad. The closest marina is 25 minutes from home so it might be worth just restoring it and launching from its current location if I could.

 

[Loren Beach]

That ding in the lead keel looks a bit more extensive than the baseball-sized indentation in the bottom leading edge on our keel when we bought the boat...
Still, when we got it home (by truck) the yard guys shrugged and said they would clean and fill it with a resin/fiber mix and fair it. About two decades later the repair is still invisible.
Fin keels do have some advantages....


And, if your "Admiral" is OK with the acquisition, you will have far less problems with the repairs and inevitable upgrades than you would experience if the circumstances were the other way 'round !
A lot of the upgrades and neglected maintenance work goes much faster with two people working as a team, also.

 

[swampyankee]

Yes, keel looks like not only did it encounter a rock but it had a drunken brawl with it. Rocks always win!
Here's some interior pics to mull over. It had really filled with water before anyone took notice and corrected it.

 

[swampyankee]

One more thing. The cabin sole is soggy and appears to be either a layer of a teak and holly look vinyl covering or a 1/8" ish thick veneer of teak and holly that has delaminated from whatever base material it was attached to. Can anyone ID what belongs there and if what is pictured is original or someones covering?