E38 Spinnaker

[our38]

I'd like information and advice on spinnaker size and dimensions. I've seen others sail with spinnakers, but have never done so myself, and don't now much about them, other than they'll help me sail a little faster down wind.

Is it possible to get a fairly good used spinnaker? It would be nice to have all new sails someday, but I'd like to learn to handle her real well first, and there's lots of other upgrades and repairs that have a higher priority.

This is our first sailboat, and we've been sailing this boat for less than two years. Any information you can provide will be much appreciated.

 

[e38 owner]

Spinnaker

I have an E38. We race quite a bit in the summer with a chute
I currently have a few

Like with all things with boats it depends on your needs/wants/expectations
When racing the 3/4 works great we can sail low and fast. It uses a pole with all the attached rigging etc. I little tough if you are short handed.
For broad reaching the crusing assym works well and is controllable in a little more wind.

I am getting the feel for the racing assym Initial thoughts are it is a big sail, going to be fast 135 apparent not has fast has the sym going ddw. if used without a pole a little easier to jibe however when jibing downwinf lose a little more time with each jibe because you can't keep it full

 

[our38]

So, E38 owner, what are the dimensions of the Luff, Leech, and Foot of your asymmetrical spinnaker?
Thanks for getting back to me.

 

[markvone]

Hi John,

I'd say a used spinnaker for cruising may be the smartest sail you could buy.
Here's the selection for a std E38 (not E381 - shorter mast) from Bacon's in Annapolis:

http://baconsails.com/search/boatsp...=50.00&boat_j=16.25&boat_p=43.25&boat_e=14.00

Many boats have them and they get little use, or they were raced/used by the previous owner (and crew) and are now available because the new couple doesn't use it. Getting close in size (larger or smaller) is no big deal if cruising.

Practicing hoists, handling, getting twists, even using a sock will be less stress full with the $500 used spinny vs a new $2500 sail.

I have 3 symmetrical chutes from old racing days and an old cruising assym. in a sock. The symmetrics are bigger (standard PHRF racing rules size) and the pole lets them fill closer to dead downwind. They require a couple of people to gybe but it can be done solo with skill and technique. The cruising assymmetric I use solo because I can gybe it easily with autopilot. It looks smaller to me but I have not actually measured it.

A couple of questions you need to answer:

What wind conditions do you primarily plan to use it in?

You'll get the biggest benefit in light air. You can reach pretty effectively with an assym. in addition to going downwind. If you use a small headsail (100-135), you'll get more use reaching than I do with a std 150% genoa. Above 15 knots broad reaching, the additional speed over my 150% genoa is not worth the opportunity for mayhem when I am solo. I would try it with a crew of two (and autopilot) if I were going a longer distance.

Shorthanded (2 or less) or crewed (4 or more)?

Hard to work the pole and a symmetric during a gybe with less than 4 on a boat as big as the E38. Do you already have a pole? Don't need it with an asymm.

What size (largest) headsail do you generally use?

An asymm can be used tight reaching to reaching in light air so the extra area is a big bonus if you use a small headsail.

Do you like to sail in light air - or do you motor? How much light air do you get?

You'll get more sailing with the spinnaker OR you'll have less time to use it if you skip sailing in 0 - 5 or motor.

A lot of design work has gone into asymmetrics over the past years. I would think for cruising shorthanded (2-3 people) a large, light air (0 -12) assymmetric would get the most use. Adding a sock can help avoid issues on hoisting and dousing. Better yet, a top down furler on a removable sprit would allow hoisting the furled spin at the dock/anchor and then switching back and forth between headsails by furling/unfurling while underway.

Mark

 

[our38]

Thanks Mark; I'll be looking for an asym in a sock, as I most often sail solo. I'd only use it in lighter winds, and, I don't have a spinnaker pole. There is a whisker pole that was on the boat when I purchased it a couple years ago, but it hasn't been used. As I'm a learner at this point, I have no interest in new sails. I plan to sail as much as I can with what I have until they completely fall apart. When I purchased the boat, the main was quite worn (I had it repaired, stitched and patched by Santa Cruz Sails) and the headsail, although in good condition, needed some stitching and new sun cover (again, done by Santa Cruz Sails).

I recently had to replace the wet exhaust elbow, so at the same time decided to replace the muffler and hoses. Since I didn't have an autopilot, I decided to splurge and purchase the Raymarine Evolution EV-1 WheelPilot. Now, everything runs well, AND I can easily hoist the main while sailing solo. All I need now is a spinnaker and I'll be good to go for awhile.

I'll check out that link, to see if I can find a decent asym w/ sock that'll work with our E38. By the way, I believe our headsail is a 135.

 

[markvone]

A few Spinnaker Tips when Sailing Solo

John,

Do not use your whisker pole with a spinnaker. It's not designed for the greater loads. It MIGHT be useable with an assymetric running winged out dead downwind which would be really useful but I would check with a sailmaker and/or rigger before you risk damage. My guess is the size of an assym, even winged out produces loads that will damage a whisker pole.

Most of the mayhem from a spin comes from hoisting and getting it down. Actually, getting it down, even if the wind has come up a lot is not too bad. The sock can add some complications, so getting a good one is best. ATN is generally considered the best. I have an old North sock and Gennaker and it works OK. I've had only one issue, once where I couldn't get the sock all the way up due to an internal twist in the control lines. Was lighter air so I pulled it down and re-hoisted.

I furl my genoa before I hoist my sock because I can get the spin halyard wrapped up with the top of the genoa. My genoa is cut as long on the hoist and as close to the deck as possible to get max area, so the upper swivel is close to the halyard exit and can grab the spin halyard when furling. It's nice to have the genoa blanket the spin sock as it's hoisted when it's windier, but it's also in the way of running the sheets and tack line. Turning closer to dead downwind so the main blankets the sock as it goes up helps when it's windier. In less than 10 kts, it's not so important.

You must have reliable steering from your autopilot when running within 20 degrees of dead downwind so you don't gybe!

I have halyards lead aft but installed cams on my mast so I can hoist at the mast and put the halyard in the cam, pull up the sock, see everything is open and ok. Mark the sheet at the winch at the correct length so when you open the sock the spin will fill and start pulling. Problems occur when the spinny can float around unfilled. After it's up and filled, I go aft and pull the halyard slack aft until it pops out of the cam and is held by the clutch at the cockpit. I find I can hoist the main much faster at the mast than at the winch back aft so I always use the cam. Also useful for reefing the main.

I always do outside gybes with the assym. You have to turn slow enough to let the clew fly ahead of the boat. I can turn 90 degrees with the autopilot, but it does it too fast. Using the 10 degree change button to get DDW, pull the clew over, then add 20-30 degrees via 3 x 10 degrees works better. I lock the main on the centerline so it doesn't crash gybe and it lets air flow down to the gybing spinny.

Your tack shackle should be a nice, releasable under load type (Tylaska). If it get's really windy, or someting else goes wrong, it's hard to reach the clew of an assym floating out over the water and it can be impossible to pull in the loaded sheet in a lot of wind. You can always release the tack of the assym, the sail will fly straight forward away from the boat flapping madly but unloaded. You can then pull the sock down over the sail OR if that's too hard or you have a sock hang up you pull the sail in by the unloaded sheet, gather the foot behind the mainand drop it down the companionway like is done while racing.

If you find yourself sailing a lot in very light air, which are nice conditions to get used to your spinny handling, having lightweight sheets and a single light shackle on the clew helps keep it flying. Just make sure the line size is big enough to get grabbed by your winches if they are self-tailers. The new high tech line can be too small for the old winches at the proper strength.

Mark

 

[our38]

Thanks for all the info Mark. I'll keep it handy for when I find the spinnaker. Oh, I wasn't planning to use the whisker pole with the spinnaker; I haven't used it at all yet. I may get it out and try it with my head sail, while hunting around for a decent used spinnaker w/sock.

 

[e38 owner]

the dimensions of mine are luff 54 leech 48.5 foot 27.5
Sail is in great shape
see attached photos
The last one is the sym on the boat just a fun day
We are the yellow one

 

[markvone]

Do try the whisker pole

John,

If you're running close to downwind where you think about running wing and wing, do try your pole. It will project the sail further out and stabilize it with little moving around. You can also sail higher (less downwind) and the pole will keep you winged out.

Try to note your boatspeed vs the windspeed to get a feel for whether DDW gets you there faster than broad reaching and gybing downwind. Of course, sometimes you just want/need to go straight and close to downwind.

Mark

 

[our38]

Thanks E38 Owner, the pictures are great, and thanks for the dimensions. That's what I need, for sailing back in to Monterey Bay at the end of the day; very nice indeed.

Mark, I will give that whisker pole a try sometime soon, once I figure out how to use it, or find someone at the docks that can educate me. Unfortunately, when I purchased our E38, all of the gauges didn't work, and I've so far only installed a Garmin 541 GPS along with a new transducer, and then most recently the Autopilot. One of the next items on the list, perhaps next year, will be a new wind speed/direction transducer that I can plug in to the SeaTalk system.

 

[e38 owner]

assy for sale

I am willing to sell the cruising assm
Send me a private message for details
I use the larger ones
Thanks