Dodger for a 35-3

[cruis-n]

Hi all -

We are considering installing a doger on our E35-3. I was wondering about the measurements, specifically how high should the doger be above the cabin sole and how far back would it extend. I have sailed on a large number of boats with dogers and found that they are indespensible for offshore and live aboards. The biggest issue seems to be the height of the doger. Too tall and it interfers with the boom. Too short and it's difficult to get below. Somewhere in the middle, and it interfers with the helmsperson's vision. I noticed that one of Sean's pictures on the home page shows a 35-3 with a doger. If possible, I'd like to see some photos of installations, and hear pros/cons of your experiences.

Other questions that come to mind are:

snaps vs. 'lift the dot' fasteners vs. 'bolt rope' attachments.

welded hand holds vs. bolted on hand holds vs. no hand holds

vinyl vs. eisenglass windows

Anything else?

 

[Loren Beach]

Artfull Dodgers...

You said:
We are considering installing a doger on our E35-3. I was wondering about the measurements, specifically how high should the doger be above the cabin sole and how far back would it extend. I have sailed on a large number of boats with dogers and found that they are indespensible for offshore and live aboards. The biggest issue seems to be the height of the doger. Too tall and it interfers with the boom. Too short and it's difficult to get below. Somewhere in the middle, and it interfers with the helmsperson's vision.
____________________________________________
I went thru this with our previous boat and the present one also. You have covered the questions well, IMHO.

A professional builder of dodgers advised me to try to get the rear at least 12 inches back from the sill that goes into the interior. This will keep most of the rain our when the wind is aft. If the back of the top is too far aft, you will find it hard to stand in front of the wheel and look forward.

Height should take into account your sight lines -- one way to look at the problem is to be able to see over it when you are standing, by at least a little bit. Then you would look through it when seated. Note that the only time the windows will ever be *really* clear is for a few months right after it is first installed.


Note that it needs to clear the boom when sailing *and* when the boom is in normal position while furled. Also, you do not want the sail cover chafing on the dodger.

I ended up making a "mock up" using some metal tubing for the bows. I cheerfully destroyed some old copper tubing in the process-- conduit might be better for a full width model. You could buy a cheap tubing bender at Harbor Freight. I went through a couple of versions, with the rear bow and front bow connected by light lines, in their "in use" position. It is important to get the slope of the top section right - you do not want rain and spray to weight it down. For the same reason there has to be a slight arc to the top. I was advised to try to match the front winndow slope to the slope of the front of the cabin, to some extent, for the sake of the overall look of the boat.

One nice thing about your boat is that you do not have an extended entry over an inset bridgedeck to cross before descending into the interior, like most tri-cabin boats (late model E-34, E-32/200, Olson 34).
For offshore use I would reccommend a full-width dodger. We sail in very congested waters and have a lot of housetop winches and clutches, and designed a hatch-width dodger to keep access to stuff and let us see forward easily. Besides, only a tiller boat really lets the driver steer from up against the cabin, under the dodger on a rainy day.
If "Otto" is steering on a wet day, I sit in the companionway where I am dry...

I shall try to attach a photo of ours, cropped to conserve space.
Loren in Portland, OR

 

[Loren Beach]

Dodging the issue, again...

Another two views of our dodger...

Loren in PDX
Olson 34 #8

 

[Sean Engle]

Dodgers as Your Back Deck

The dodger I had made for O Barquinho in 2001 had a couple of leading factors - first among them safety (1" thick walled tubing, complete with back grab and side grab points), and appeal to the design itself. The one I replaced was very square, and I did not like it - while this one was more or less the same shape, but more curved, and just slightly smaller.

I also had them make me a cockpit cover for use while on anchor, as well as covers for all the lexan. When the cover goes up, it keeps the dew out, the cock pit nice and dry (and protected from the cold night air here), and gives the cockpit the feeling of a sunroom, or covered porch.

The dodger is also big enough to be able to store wet rain coats of guests when they come visiting, and if the cover is up, we can actually use the cockpit itself for dining, etc.

//sse

 

[Sean Engle]

More pics...

 

[Sean Engle]

And finally...

 

[Sean Engle]

Oh...

And on the other issues:

snaps vs. 'lift the dot' fasteners vs. 'bolt rope' attachments.

- Mine has both; lift-the-dot fastners at some points in the front, but there is also a bolt rope going under the main window.

welded hand holds vs. bolted on hand holds vs. no hand holds

- Mine are bolted on.

vinyl vs. eisenglass windows

- Mine are Lexan with covers built to protect them from the sun...

//sse

 

[cruis-n]

Interesting hand hold

Sean -
It appears that you have two bows at the aft end of the dodger (my wife pointed out to me I kan't spel), one for the fabric to attach to and one used as a hand hold. Is that true? I had assumed that one 14-18" hand hold in the center would be adequate. How do you find that the full width hand hold works for you?

 

[Sean Engle]

Hand Holds

I think the one that wraps up and over and down the other side (there's a center support, welded in the middle)(like I have) is nice, because people naturally like to keep their hand on something when they feel unsafe.

It also provides a nice 'guard' from the sunbrella itself - and keeps people from grabbing the canvas instead of the stainless.

I can give you the number of the people in Seattle to did this for me if you like...

//sse

 

[Os Saguil]

schmetic of dodger and cockpit cover

The dodger I had made for O Barquinho two years ago had a couple of leading factors - first among them safety (1" thick walled tubing, complete with back grab and side grab points), and appeal to the design itself. The one I replaced was very square, and I did not like it - while this one was more or less the same shape, but more curved, and just slightly smaller.

I also had them make me a cockpit cover for use while on anchor, as well as covers for all the lexan. When the cover goes up, it keeps the dew out, the cock pit nice and dry (and protected from the cold night air here), and gives the cockpit the feeling of a sunroom, or covered porch.

The dodger is also big enough to be able to store wet rain coats of guests when they come visiting, and if the cover is up, we can actually use the cockpit itself for dining, etc.

//sse

I love the dodger you made with the cover. I am wondering if you might give me a schematic sketch and materials used in the making. It will be appreciated very much.

 

[Sean Engle]

I love the dodger you made with the cover. I am wondering if you might give me a schematic sketch and materials used in the making. It will be appreciated very much.

I don't have a sketch - but still have plenty of images that should suffice for any decent canvas person to create this (the total cost in 2001 was just under $4k). Email me off line and I'll put together a packet of images, etc for you - including one of the bows, etc...

The guy who did this one has since gone out of business (which was sad, because he does such nice work - I actually had someone walk up to my boat at a boatshow and ask me if 'whathisname' did this - as his work is pretty well known). He may be back in business now, however... I'm sure I can run him down if you're in the Seattle area...

//sse

 

[footrope]

Dying to know --?

Sean and Loren - Nice dodgers.

I was wondering how Sean's awning worked out in practice. I have one that is nearly identical and I've only used it a couple times for a sun shade. It looks like you have a fitting on the backstay? Mine also has a D-ring that I can attach (using a small line) to the boom for support. I have the aft horizontal pole with lines on the ends and several grommets and lines along each side. I've wondered about using bungy cords instead of tying off the lines.

Did you ever have it up in rain or wind? Where did the runoff go? I realize it has no sides, but I was wondering if it could withstand much wind?

Thanks,

 

[Sean Engle]

Dodger stuff...

Hey Craig -

It had a pole built into a loop at the end. It probably would have been more practical to use something already on the boat (extra boathook or something), but the fellow who put it in just added a light aluminimum pole inside for support.

There was a small cleat/eye on my backstay - and I would just tie it off there - at the each end of the pole was another small line that I would tie off to the rails.

Wind was usually not an issue. It had to be blowing pretty hard to get me to take it down (remember that we would be pointed into the wind anyhow...). I had it up past whitecaps (18kts?), and it was fine... During really big blows (gale warning) I took it down. During the fall (at the dock) I took the main guts out of the dodger also to prevent damage from our November winds - or at least turned her around in her slip so she would face south (in Tacoma, mind you).

Rain was ok - if it was a light rain, you could sit in the cockpit - if it was blowing, it was sort of like a porch - a mixed area of mostly dry/some wet. It was wide enough that when the water came off it was outside the combing. In wet/wet weather, we would sit with our backs to the bulkheads (protected by the dodger sides) and read...very nice....

Remember that once things clam down at night (at least during the summer) the wind usually dies and things go flat. That was when I really loved this thing. The cockpit stayed dry from dew - it sort of captured some of the warmth coming from the Espar down below, and the morning sun was not blaring down the companionway; it made the cockpit seem snug and private.

I also had a bimini that came with the boat - and it was the first thing to go to the basement (never used it). Since both of you live in the NW - you know why. It's also the reason I opted to go with the cockpit cover and not a more 'formalized' cover (bimini+sides)...

As usual, got covers for the rails, covers for the lexan, covers for the companionway doors, covers for the hatches, covers for just about everything. If the ports were not already crazed, I would have gotten covers for them too...

//sse

 

[footrope]

Thanks!

Wow, you used yours quite a bit. I really hadn't considered sailing with it up but if I don't attach it to the boom it should be possible. Bimini's involve other compromises, for sure, but apart from being semi-permanent and hard to store aboard, they seem to work pretty well (if the backstay and boom don't get in the way). I haven't really considered one seriously.

I think I'll find a way to attach a cleat or hook to the backstay and simplify that part of putting it up - or wrap some tape around the BS at the proper height for tying it up.

Cheers,

 

[Sean Engle]

Well - I never sailed with it up Craig - it was too low - and blocked too much view. I've motored with it up (for blocking the sun - or early in the AM when it was still cold). But on the hook, it's hard to beat...

//sse

 

[Chris Miller]

side bars...

I really like the side grab bars that have started showing up on dodgers lately. The run horizontal (front to back) along the top on both sides and allow for a good grab as you go forward. I wish ours had them
Chris

 

[NateHanson]

Are those usually bolted on through the fabric after the fabric is installed?

 

[Sean Engle]

Are those usually bolted on through the fabric after the fabric is installed?

Good question! I know that the grab rails were bolted to the main dodger frame and bows - the guy who did it made cut outs for the bolts - and trimed them with leather (the back edge was leather also, as were other trim points on the dodger).

//sse

 

[TorMar]

Dodger, bimini and connector

Great discussion of dodgers and pros and cons above. Our dodger is similar to Sean's, but about four or five inches lower. I was concerned about being able to look over it when sailing ( I'm 5'9" tall) and agreed to the very low profile suggested by the shop building it. I now wish it was five inches higher.
We use the bimini regularly for rain and more often for protection against the sun. On a super hot day it makes a huge difference to on board comfort. Our bimini is permanently mounted on the frame which can be folded back together and a bimini boot zipped over the works. We also had a 'bimini' - 'dodger' connecter made that zips in place. It is like a big window allowing vision forward but protecting us from driving rain or wind. Having this set up is really simple and a minimum of fuss to put it up or take it down.

 

[Kim Schoedel]

Sean, your cockpit cover looks like it would fit our needs big time. Hot sunny summer days in North Idaho with no wind or rafted up for lunch and as well to help keep the cockpit cleaner during down times. What we don't want is a whole bunch of supports to crawl through and encumber the winches. It looks from the pics that it simply zippers onto the aft end of the dodger and then is supported by some kind of a "yoke" that attaches to the back stay, then secured via lines from the port and starboard aft corners of the cover to the stern rails. Am I getting this correctly? What kind of cleat is it on the back stay? My mind says plastic bolt-on with a ring going through it of some sort?