Cunningham question

[N.A.]

Hello folks-

I have just gotten my new main (with 3 reefs, joy!) and cut-down jib (now 90%).

The sail has a cunningham grommet... I used to use the cunningham on J24's, but for the Ericson (E34 style rig) I could just use halyard tension...

I am thinking of setting up the cunningham, though, and would appreciate any comment.

- Specifically, what purchase would I need for an E34 / E35? On the web I see comments from 4:1 on up to 12:1.

- What load an I looking at (affects line, block sizes)

- While I'm at it, any thoughts on a new halyard are welcome. Absent other advice, I am planning to get 3/8 dyneema (ease on hands and better likely compatibility with clutches and self-tailers.)

I am unlikely to do 12:1 on the cunningham. 4:1 seems civilized in terms of size (and could be 8:1 if I run it through the grommet and down to the boom... which I would prefer not to do, but might if I've got sunk cost and 4:1 doesn't work). I am imagining something I adjust only rarely (once or twice per sail, unless the wind changes a lot)... probably using a cam-on-the-final-block rig (like on a dinghy mainsheet) that I have to go forward to adjust. Already have a lot of lines running back to the cockpit, don't feel the need to add another unless advised very strongly to do that.

Any advice appreciated.



PS:
This is a follow-on to my earlier post re: sail trim, linked here, but since it is about the cunningham specifically I thought I'd start a new thread:

Weather helm / helm balance question

How do you (personally -- looking for your experience with your Ericson) adjust your helm balance? Also, roughly how much weather helm is acceptable/normal for Ericson's (and at what angle of heel)? I am finding 1-2 spokes worth almost always; Raymarine wheel-pilot starts struggling with...

ericsonyachts.org

For those of you that kindly responded to my weather helm post, it was very much appreciated and with the new main I can start applying your advice.

I have already seen the (very helpful) thread here:

Rigging a Cunningham

I have a 1983 E28+ that has no Cunningham. I would like to rig one and have seen what looks like some pretty good examples on the Harken web site. Any suggestions on what works well? One concern is using a Cunningham hook vs just threading a line through the Cunningham grommet in the sail...

ericsonyachts.org

while I agree re: backstay adjustment, my boat has a split backstay and no adjuster... and I am not sure how I'd even add one given the split backstay. So no backstay adjustment for me, it seems. And it was unclear from the thread what purchase/load I need for an E34.

Halyards are also discussed here:

35-3 Halyards

I’m looking at new halyards for my 35-3. The data I’ve found shows 3/8”, but I’ve got a mix (3/8” on the main and 7/16” on the headsail) now. Has anyone had issues with going to 7/16” for both the main and headsail? The deck hardware can handle up to 7/16”, but I’m concerned about the mast head...

ericsonyachts.org

Sourcing a new main halyard

Recently removed the old wire-to-rope main halyard on my 32-3, and looking for an all-rope replacement. Wanted to use 10mm (3/8) New England VPC, for which Defender (at 1.42/ft) is about the only show in town. West Marine is pricey, Fisheries doesn't carry, Vela Sailing is out of stock, APS is...

ericsonyachts.org

 

[Frank Langer]

It sounds like you're doing good work to improve your boat for sailing!
For your information, I have a split backstay, and a manual backstay adjuster, on our boat, and it makes quite a difference in a strong breeze or more wind. It's easy to deploy.
It consists of a simple piece with blocks and two rollers that role down the split backstay, with a can cleat on the transom to cleat off the tensioned line. A rigger could likely add that without too much extra cost.
Frank

 

[Dave G.]

I agree with Frank on the backstay adjuster, I have the same boat as him and purchased the adjuster blocks from Garhauer link below. I use a simple 4:1 with a cam cleat to control it, they sell those too if needed. I think your boat is a masthead rig so you will get more benefits from being able to adjust backstay tension. I also use a 4:1 on my Cunningham and works fine.

Backstay Block TR-R | Garhauer

Backstay adjuster blocks for a split backstay

www.garhauermarine.com

 

[N.A.]

Many thanks to both of you!

I will look into setting up a backstay adjuster (longer-term project than a cunningham, which I can do myself). I had not idea I could do this, though now that I see pictures, I realize J24's have this same rig... so I've even used it before, and just forgotten.

The Garhauer units appear to be delrin (< 30' LOA) or aluminum sheaves (> 30' LOA)... I am not sure I want aluminum on my stainless stays... my understanding is electrolysis is an issue between those two metals. I'm sure I (or a rigger can find appropriate non-metal system for this, though.

PS: useful threads:

backstay working load

I don't want to hijack your thread so let me know if I should just start a new one. You guys seem to have a handle on all this already so.. My question is 2 fold, should & how do I rig a backstay adjuster on a 30+ (split BS Fractional). I understand the principle with a split backstay but exact...

ericsonyachts.org

(nice pictures of the system described by Frank)

older hydraulic systems:

Mechanical Backstay Adjustment

Has anyone had any experience with mechanical backstay adjusters on later model Ericsons? We have an '87 E34 with a new main (1 season) and a new head sail coming in a few weeks to be fitted to the existing Harken II roller furling. I'd like to be able to bend the ast a bit to take up slack...

ericsonyachts.org

 

[Dave G.]

The Garhauer units appear to be delrin (< 30' LOA) or aluminum sheaves

Pretty sure that the sheaves that ride on the backstay are stainless as I remember them being "hefty" when assembling. Next time I get to the boat I'll check. Of course you can just call Garhauer to find out too. If by chance they are not I'm sure they could accommodate.

 

[dcoyle]

Hello folks-

I have just gotten my new main (with 3 reefs, joy!) and cut-down jib (now 90%).

The sail has a cunningham grommet... I used to use the cunningham on J24's, but for the Ericson (E34 style rig) I could just use halyard tension...

I am thinking of setting up the cunningham, though, and would appreciate any comment.

- Specifically, what purchase would I need for an E34 / E35? On the web I see comments from 4:1 on up to 12:1.

- What load an I looking at (affects line, block sizes)

- While I'm at it, any thoughts on a new halyard are welcome. Absent other advice, I am planning to get 3/8 dyneema (ease on hands and better likely compatibility with clutches and self-tailers.)

I am unlikely to do 12:1 on the cunningham. 4:1 seems civilized in terms of size (and could be 8:1 if I run it through the grommet and down to the boom... which I would prefer not to do, but might if I've got sunk cost and 4:1 doesn't work). I am imagining something I adjust only rarely (once or twice per sail, unless the wind changes a lot)... probably using a cam-on-the-final-block rig (like on a dinghy mainsheet) that I have to go forward to adjust. Already have a lot of lines running back to the cockpit, don't feel the need to add another unless advised very strongly to do that.

Any advice appreciated.



PS:
This is a follow-on to my earlier post re: sail trim, linked here, but since it is about the cunningham specifically I thought I'd start a new thread:

Weather helm / helm balance question

How do you (personally -- looking for your experience with your Ericson) adjust your helm balance? Also, roughly how much weather helm is acceptable/normal for Ericson's (and at what angle of heel)? I am finding 1-2 spokes worth almost always; Raymarine wheel-pilot starts struggling with...

ericsonyachts.org

For those of you that kindly responded to my weather helm post, it was very much appreciated and with the new main I can start applying your advice.

I have already seen the (very helpful) thread here:

Rigging a Cunningham

I have a 1983 E28+ that has no Cunningham. I would like to rig one and have seen what looks like some pretty good examples on the Harken web site. Any suggestions on what works well? One concern is using a Cunningham hook vs just threading a line through the Cunningham grommet in the sail...

ericsonyachts.org

while I agree re: backstay adjustment, my boat has a split backstay and no adjuster... and I am not sure how I'd even add one given the split backstay. So no backstay adjustment for me, it seems. And it was unclear from the thread what purchase/load I need for an E34.

Halyards are also discussed here:

35-3 Halyards

I’m looking at new halyards for my 35-3. The data I’ve found shows 3/8”, but I’ve got a mix (3/8” on the main and 7/16” on the headsail) now. Has anyone had issues with going to 7/16” for both the main and headsail? The deck hardware can handle up to 7/16”, but I’m concerned about the mast head...

ericsonyachts.org

Sourcing a new main halyard

Recently removed the old wire-to-rope main halyard on my 32-3, and looking for an all-rope replacement. Wanted to use 10mm (3/8) New England VPC, for which Defender (at 1.42/ft) is about the only show in town. West Marine is pricey, Fisheries doesn't carry, Vela Sailing is out of stock, APS is...

ericsonyachts.org

First I am not a rigger or sail maker but do have a simple cunningham on my E33 that we use all the time. I have a length of line, 1/2” or slightly smaller with a hook tied to one end. The hook sits in hole in mast partner then run up through cringle in sail down to turning block attached to mast partner. From turning block it is run through clutch and we adjust with cabin top winch. This system has worked since boat was new in 1982. Hope this is useful for you.

 

[dcoyle]

First I am not a rigger or sail maker but do have a simple cunningham on my E33 that we use all the time. I have a length of line, 1/2” or slightly smaller with a hook tied to one end. The hook sits in hole in mast partner then run up through cringle in sail down to turning block attached to mast partner. From turning block it is run through clutch and we adjust with cabin top winch. This system has worked since boat was new in 1982. Hope this is useful for you.

For what its worth the cunningham and back stay should be used in conjunction. When adding tension to backstay the main sail draft moves aft, to move it forward the cunningham needs to be tensioned. Again Im not a sail maker but do a lot of racing on my E33 and these adjustments are used all the time usually starting around 12-14 knots.

 

[Pete the Cat]

Hello folks-

I have just gotten my new main (with 3 reefs, joy!) and cut-down jib (now 90%).

The sail has a cunningham grommet... I used to use the cunningham on J24's, but for the Ericson (E34 style rig) I could just use halyard tension...

I am thinking of setting up the cunningham, though, and would appreciate any comment.

- Specifically, what purchase would I need for an E34 / E35? On the web I see comments from 4:1 on up to 12:1.

- What load an I looking at (affects line, block sizes)

- While I'm at it, any thoughts on a new halyard are welcome. Absent other advice, I am planning to get 3/8 dyneema (ease on hands and better likely compatibility with clutches and self-tailers.)

I am unlikely to do 12:1 on the cunningham. 4:1 seems civilized in terms of size (and could be 8:1 if I run it through the grommet and down to the boom... which I would prefer not to do, but might if I've got sunk cost and 4:1 doesn't work). I am imagining something I adjust only rarely (once or twice per sail, unless the wind changes a lot)... probably using a cam-on-the-final-block rig (like on a dinghy mainsheet) that I have to go forward to adjust. Already have a lot of lines running back to the cockpit, don't feel the need to add another unless advised very strongly to do that.

Any advice appreciated.



PS:
This is a follow-on to my earlier post re: sail trim, linked here, but since it is about the cunningham specifically I thought I'd start a new thread:

Weather helm / helm balance question

How do you (personally -- looking for your experience with your Ericson) adjust your helm balance? Also, roughly how much weather helm is acceptable/normal for Ericson's (and at what angle of heel)? I am finding 1-2 spokes worth almost always; Raymarine wheel-pilot starts struggling with...

ericsonyachts.org

For those of you that kindly responded to my weather helm post, it was very much appreciated and with the new main I can start applying your advice.

I have already seen the (very helpful) thread here:

Rigging a Cunningham

I have a 1983 E28+ that has no Cunningham. I would like to rig one and have seen what looks like some pretty good examples on the Harken web site. Any suggestions on what works well? One concern is using a Cunningham hook vs just threading a line through the Cunningham grommet in the sail...

ericsonyachts.org

while I agree re: backstay adjustment, my boat has a split backstay and no adjuster... and I am not sure how I'd even add one given the split backstay. So no backstay adjustment for me, it seems. And it was unclear from the thread what purchase/load I need for an E34.

Halyards are also discussed here:

35-3 Halyards

I’m looking at new halyards for my 35-3. The data I’ve found shows 3/8”, but I’ve got a mix (3/8” on the main and 7/16” on the headsail) now. Has anyone had issues with going to 7/16” for both the main and headsail? The deck hardware can handle up to 7/16”, but I’m concerned about the mast head...

ericsonyachts.org

Sourcing a new main halyard

Recently removed the old wire-to-rope main halyard on my 32-3, and looking for an all-rope replacement. Wanted to use 10mm (3/8) New England VPC, for which Defender (at 1.42/ft) is about the only show in town. West Marine is pricey, Fisheries doesn't carry, Vela Sailing is out of stock, APS is...

ericsonyachts.org

I use a 4:1 on my cunningham hook on my 32-200. and on my Tartan 37 and never felt the need to have more. I am 75 years old and no he-man. It is aft led through turning blocks and through a simple Lewar clutch. I believe a cunningham is important for sail shape on everything from dinghies to big boats. It has taken me a year of sailing the boat to get it to the point that I can almost balance it and get it to sail itself, but it does not take much to knock off the rail though--I wish Bruce King had put a longer lower part of the fin on the keel---My deep fin keel Tartan will sail itself for hours in constant wind and low waves action.