Build quality, 70s vs. 80s

[deadpoet]

Humbly I come once again to the temple of knowledge.

I'm thinking about buying an Ericson, and I asked a question recently about blistering, which seems to me a problem that could take a fair amount of money out of your pocket, or put a fair amount of arthritis into your shoulder and elbow.

Based on responses, and other stuff I've read, I've got a couple more questions, though they're not necessarily blister-related.

1. For those who have worked on or owned or surveyed both, is the layup quality and thickness of 1970s hulls much better than that of 1980s hulls? I know there's a lot more other stuff to go wrong on an older boat, but is it a matter of an inch thick layup versus a half-inch thick, etc.? And I know that thinner can still be good, if it's done right and is more glass, proportionally. But overkill isn't always bad, in a boat, right?

2. Was there a year that the . . . what do they call it? the triaxial grid? structure went into all the boats? It seems to me that it's well thought of from a strengthening standpoint, and might recommend a newer boat over an older for that reason.

3. Boats produced in Mexico seem possibly implicated on the blistering front. Is there a list somewhere of what models were produced where and when? Barring that, is there a year when a fair amount of production first moved south of the border?

4. I guess the question is, in general, is it potentially worth accepting the peripheral problems of a boat that's 10 years older (1970-1979 vs. 1980-1989) because you get a hull that's just a lot less potential trouble and, essentially, built like the proverbial brick outhouse?

Thanks again for your help.

John

 

[gareth harris]

You raise some questions I can not hope to answer, but here as a thought, worth what you have paid for it:

In just over a decade since I bought my boat, I have watched the price boats of the same vintage steadily fall, and then suddenly rise fairly steeply. My own experience backs that up, in as much as that starting at age 25-30 they came to need a lot of work that could not be patched over any longer. Such items as corroded electrical wiring, water intrusion into the deck (handrails pulling loose seems fairly common), engines needing major overhaul/replacement, corroded exhaust pipes, deteriorated hoses, stove replacement, upgrades to technology in electrical equipment and rigging - I could go on. And while I am not old enough to say this for sure, I suspect people are just more demanding these days too, and want the boats kitted out better.

So the 70s boats on the market now will often have had much of this work already done, at great cost and effort; if not they are likely in a dire state with a value in four figures. I will let 80s boats owners talk about how they find their boats now, but I suspect they are coming up on the same issues.

So 70s you need to evaluate the work to place a value on the boat, both in its extent and its quality. Most boats will have had owners that neglected them at some point, and stories of spectacularly shoddy work are only too common. Yards are often little better, it is common for them to do a job to last a few years on behalf of the current owner that will hold until he sells the boat, rather than thinking of making the fix last another 30 years. Also, consider whether the modifications have been done they way you would want them, since the boats are far less uniform now.

If you buy an 80s boat, think about the work that will be needed in the near future.

As for hulls, a lot of people have told me that the early vintage fibreglass hulls are the best ever made, due to being overbuilt, but I am not sure how much difference it makes unless you hit something solid.

Have I convinced you to buy a Laser instead yet?

Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972

 

[Cory B]

A couple quick comments. We owned a '75 32 for about 10 years, and now have a '84 35.

Build quality seems to be decent in both. Both boats have had minor blistering. Both boats are good sailing boats.

I think the TAFG boats have thinner glass in many areas - I don't consider this a negative neccessarily, because I think the boat is overall stiffer due to the grid.

Most of the 80's boats have a "more modern" bolt on keel (which can be problematic - multiple threads on that) versus the 70's boats with an integral keel.

The 80's boats are generally a little beamier than their 70's counterparts, but nowhere near as beamy as todays boats.

Our 35-3 has more bells and whistles than our 32-2 did, and is a faster, perhaps more thought out, and more modern (albeit now 20+ years old) design.

We really like our 35, but at the same time still miss our 32.

I wouldn't discount any of the 70's boats if you are shopping. Some of them have been better kept up and modernized, while some of the 80's boats suffer from severe neglect. You really have to consider an individual boat beyond its year and make - all the Ericsons are old enough now that I think an extra ten years or so in age is not enough alone to disqualify them from consideration.

 

[Capt.Grant Dial]

Go 70's

From my experience (I' on my 3rd full restoration and upgrade) 70's hulls are less likely to blister than the newer ones. I've worked in several boatyards as well, and realize it is foolish to make a blanket statement like that, but they are infact more bullet-proof than the newer hulls. This was mostly due to lack of knowledge about the strengths of FRP consstruction. Also the newer obsession w/ lightness was much less pronounced. You might note a current trend in racing boats having their keels fall off due to lack of support (or strenghtening materials) in their hulls. Part of this is due to vessels no longer being built to ABS specifications. You won't need to worry about that. Pick the boat that appeals the most to you and your wallet and then invest in a pre-purchase survey. The surveyor will tap the entire hull w/ his hammer and be able to tell you what to expect. Vessel histories a helpful, if available, as well. Some owners I've met have been more than astute in that dept. Good Luck! Capt.Grant