Bristol Varnish

[kevin81]

Does anyone have any experience using Bristol Varnish? The previous owners used Cetol and I want to remove it and use a more "traditional" finish (varnish). Our previous boat we used varnish but had to renew if frequently here in the sub-tropical Texas coast.

Also, if I do remove the Cetol - any suggestions how to remove it - paint/varnish remover, heat gun, and/or sanding?

Thanks,
Kevin
1989 E34

 

[Loren Beach]

Have not tried Bristol, but just got through re-doing most of our external teak with Cetol Light. I sanded off what was left of the original-color Cetol from five years ago... some of it rather scaly and there were a lot of bare patches.

80 grit on a pad sander, exhausting to a vacumn cleaner works great for any surface or angle that the little quarter-sheet sander can get at. Smoothed it up with some 120 and applied 3 coats of the new lighter-shade Cetol. Looks good to me -- admittedly still not as yachty as varnish. My standards may be lower than yours...

BTW, any parts that were water-darkened where the old finish was peeled away had to be chemically cleaned with Teka A and B and then sanded to bring them back to that golden look. The parts still under the tough old orange-y Cetol surface were just fine, once the surface was abraided off.

Bristol finish gets purdy good writeups; let us know how it comes out for you.

Best,
Loren

 

[Emerald]

Don't know about Bristol, but have had very good luck with Interlux's Schooner - PS has done some long term reviews, and it has generally performed very well.


-David
Independence 31
Emerald

 

[Frank G]

I will never, ever use Bristol finish again. Several reasons:
with an 8 to 1 mixing ratio it makes mixing up a small batch problematic unless you have access to syringes or a gram scale. And you will need to touch it up.
Wherever you may get a nick or scratch in the finish moisture will get under it and start to lift the finish off.
If you do decide to remove it standard varnish removers don't work.
If you have any problems you will be given a bunch of crap from the factory reps who will immediately tell you it's your fault for not following directions. I have an engineering background and have OCD when it comes to following directions. I do it exactly, but they still gave me grief.

Google Bristol Finish and see what people say about Bristol finish in various discussion groups. I am not alone in my opinion.

I'm in the process of redoing all the exterior teak on my 32 and am using Cetol natural, a new product for them. It goes on really nice, doesn't have that orange Cetol look, and it has UV inhibitors already in it. Others in my club like the look too and are using it with good results.

I have to try to remove all the peeling Bristol finish off my Catalina 25 so I can sell it as it really looks bad now.

but did I tell you that I really don't like Bristol finish?

 

[tilwinter]

Bristol, Yuck

I used Bristol last spring for my brightwork, and I could not agree more with what Frank G has written.

I would add one other problem: it bubbles very easily. I suspect that the catalysis which occurs emits a small amount of free gas, which forms tiny bubbles.

Just to see if it was me creating the bubbles, I bought a can of the West Marine product, and had no problems at all. I will use the West Marine product next time.

The mixing will drive you nuts.

 

[Frank G]

Yeah Rod, I forgot about the bubbles. What a pain to sand them out. Good point.
I'll probably get sued by Bristol for dissing their product.

 

[treilley]

I used the Bristol finish water based interior poly on my sole and am not happy with it's durability in spite of what the rep said.

For the exterior I used Honey Teak which I am very happy with. It is quick and easy to apply and looks great. Goes on wet on wet so completing the job in 1 or 2 days is feasible. Their support is also very good.

I will scuff with a scotchbrite this year and apply one coat of clear for maintenance.

 

[Mort Fligelman]

Bristol Finish

Hey Tim:

To bad this post was not 3 weeks earlier......

I just used the Bristol Interior Water based gloss poly.......the results are not what it is cracked up to be......

I am sure that if you are having durability problems mine will surely follow...

What will you use to refinish????? and will you just sand (scotchbrite) over the old Bristol?

Thanks

 

[treilley]

I am not sure which finish I will use but I am leaning towards Ultimate Sole. I will defer to them about surface prep. Hopefully just a scuff.

 

[Moor'ea]

I've had the opposite experience.

First tried bristol out about two years ago. The exterior version. Did a bunch of work - other boats included - and the finish is still as deep and rich as it was the day I put it on. One of the benefits to the Bristol Finish polyurethane finish is its quick cure time. Traditional varnishes usually have a minimum cure time of 12 hrs, with sanding before laying another coat on. Sure, you can sometimes get it faster than that with japan drier or other accellerators, but you still have to wait till the next day to get another coat on. Hopefully the weather is still agreeable. With the Bristol, you can usually start on the second coat but the time you've finished the first coat. First coat I usually thin 50/50 with MEK, applying a very thin coat. Then comes a full-strength second coat as soon as the finish is such that when touched, you see a fingerprint, but nothing comes off on your finger. Rinse, repeat. At this rate, on a good day you can easily get 4 coats on in a single day, eight in a weekend. So long as you don't go more than 48 hrs between coats, no sanding is necessary. However, for the final coat I give the whole thing a good once over with some 240 grit, then do the final coat.

As for the bubbles, tipping with MEK before they get too cured will alleviate any sanding issues.

And a last note: direct sunlight, as with any varnish project is not recommended. Rig up some kind of tarp if you can to keep the direct sun off, and that will also reduce bubbling.

Every six months or so, I sand a layer or two off and put on 3-4 more coats.

It's worked great for me.

I don't have the patience any more for traditional spar varnishes.

cheers,
Jay

the photo is about coat number four on the original round of coats. It still looks as good.

 

[Brian K]

I'd like to add to Frank G's statement about Cetol Natural. I made a removable teak sole for the cockpit of my E-32-200 last winter and used the Cetol Natural. It doesn't have nearly the orange look of Cetol Light. Prep work is easy and touching up is easy. I'm glad to hear the discussion of Bristol since I was considering giving that a try. Not now!

 

[tilwinter]

bristol

Moor'ea:

Regarding the bubbles, I had just as much of a problem doing the hatch boards in my garage, as when I did the rails on the boat in the sun. I don't say this to be argumentative, just to give more info to others.

I would also address the multiple coats issue. In fact, this is why I chose Bristol, on the advice of a friend.

In actuality, found that I couldn't really do more than two coats a day. Dancing around the topside doing the rails was very tiring, and it was also difficult to estimate how much to mix each time. Measuring out 40 cc of varnish and 5 cc of activator, or 60 and 7.5, etc., was messy and I wound up with unused batches, or else I wound up with less than 100% coverage.

West Marine's product is semi-gloss, but also allows two coats a day, and requires no sanding between coats. And NO MIXING.

 

[Brian K]

Maybe I missed it in this string, but what is the name of the West Marine product that is referenced?

 

[tilwinter]

WoodPro Plus semi gloss

is the name of the product. I had to look it up. Old age is setting in.

 

[Gary Peterson]

Bristol 2 part varnish finish

We had friends at our club who refinished all of their outside teak on their Island Packet and they also followed the instructions to the letter. Next spring it all peeled off in patches and Bristol told them to have a nice day when they complained.

 

[Frank G]

and we're talking lots of teak on an Island Packet too.

I wonder why I have never seen a review of Bristol Finish in Practical sailor.

does Bernie Madhoff own Bristol finish?

Frank

 

[Eric Miller]

Opinions....

I am looking to refinish all of the wood on my E35, and there is a lot. Interior/Exterior, you name it, it needs work. I am not well versed in varnishes and so came on looking for some passive advice. I first found this thread, where Martin King touts Bristol Finish:

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?p=26640#post26640

Then I found the current thread where Bristol is Satan. It is interesting and informative (albeit a bit confusing) to read about the difference in opinions/experiences. I'm looking for the same thing everyone is: relative ease of application, durability, beauty, and economy. Seems like when you line up 4 subjective words like that people are rarely, if ever, in complete-or even slight- agreement.

With that in mind, which varnish should I use?

 

[tilwinter]

Bristol Finnish

Note that Martin King sprayed on the Bristol, over a deep base coat.

This would not be an option to me, and is not an easy route.

Also, regarding the project he did: it is AWESOME and far beyond my meager abilities, not to mention time constraints. Just doing the brightwork last year cost me about three weeks of sailing because my free time is available in short discrete increments.

I read about West Marine Wood Pro Plus in a Boat US publication (no bias there, right?). The author mentioned its versatility and ease of application, and I would agree.

But you will not get the deep luster of Martin's project.

 

[Brisdon]

Bristol will look good longer than a traditional marine finish, but when it undercuts and gets that blown look, there is no simple way to touch it up. It's horrible to get off the wood. I like Epifanes

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

How Timely

I am in the process of refinishing the exterior wood on Escape Plan. I did it all 3 years ago with Epiphanes. Had been covered in a ton of Cetol. IMHO I would rather see the teak bare and grey with weathering than that orange and mildewstained cetol. I stripped with a heat gun and scraper the cetol Then sanded with 80. Then cleaned with teak cleaner to lighten. Then sanded again with 80 -220. Then 14 painstaking coats of Epiphanes wood finish gloss Specially formulated for Teak. Thinned the first coat 50%, then 25% for 2-4, then 10% for 5-10, then full strength for 11-14. Looked great, for a season. By the following spring it was crazed and flaking off in many spots. I touched it up with sanding and 4 coats. Following year even worse. Its now so bad the stripping is easy. Again with the heat gun, scraper, and a six pack. Followed by advil for the lower back of course... Was thinking of using the Bristol finish but now I dont think so. Along similar lines I once sealed wood on a racing dinghy with epoxy using clear hardner. Washed the amine blush off then 5 coats of Epiphanes for UV protection. It held up great which I why I went with it again. Now I dont know what to use. Hate the look of Cetol but have a hard time knocking its durability or ease of use. Maybe Ill have to check out the Natural.

On another note I'm also replacing the cabin sole. Boy what a lot of work that job is. $800 in plywood too. Got all 1,000 pieces of trim out and revarnished using Interlux's Schooner interior I think. Nice stuff in a semigloss that blends well with exisiting varnish. Sealed all the new floor in epoxy thinned with alcohol. Will probably finish with Ultimate Sole.

BTW Escape Plan will most likely be on the market later this spring once all this work is done. Will give the listing here first though.