Bilge Pump Failures

[rgoff]

I'm having repeated bilge pump failures. I don't live where my boat is anymore and it's several months between visits.

I've had repeated failures of Rule bilge pumps. With the last 2 (different models) the fuse is blown when I get to my boat. It blows again when I put a new one in. This last time I'm sure the pump never ran while I was gone, as the bilge was bone dry (like I left it).

All of the pumps are the "intelligent variety", with some sort of control electronics in them (not just a float switch).

I'm beginning to think that my small 0.5 amp solar panel is creating too much voltage for the pumps. Since there is no load on the 2 batteries, they can get up to 14.5 volts, maybe a bit more, in full sun.

I emailed Rule a couple of weeks ago, but no reply.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

 

[chaco]

Voltage Regulator

You need a Voltage Regulator on any Solar System if you don't have one.
The over voltage might just be enough to burn up your pumps :nerd:
The fuses won't save your pump if the rating is higher than running amps.

It's the old Process of Elimination Game

 

[Loren Beach]

voltage? Type of pump? Hmmm

Ralph,
I can not imagine why the centrifugal Rule pumps fail. AFAIK most of these things are rated for a fairly wide range of dc voltage, to cover conditions ranging from a low (like 11.9 battery) to high (like 13.8 or 14.1) when being charged by the alternator. And yes, I may be remembering those numbers incorrectly...
Still, in observing on-going Rule pump problems with our club work boat and the supposedly-simple float switch, I am a bit skeptical of this company's engineering and especially their QC. One our own boat the Rule float-type pump switch has died a couple times over the last 12 years, and that's in a fresh water environment with almost no use.

After a "learning experience" with centrifugal pumps and back flooding, I went back to the more costly Ericson factory Jabsco/Par chamber type bilge pump.

Unless you are fighting massive flooding, and are absolutely sure that your high-flow centrifugal Rule is going to work perfectly in your absence, I would rather you switch to the Par Max 4, at about $150. to $170. from a 'net vendor. Extended run dry times, positive pumping with no problem with air locking like the Rule can suffer from at times, and no chance of back flooding. Then add the best "low tech" float switch you can find, which may even be a Rule brand.

I wish I knew of a cheaper answer, and there certainly may be one.
I found the PDF for the tech data for the pump, but it does not seem to mention max voltage, but just specifies "12 volts."
http://www.jabsco.com/files/3170x_washdown_and_bilge.pdf



Maybe one of marine electricians on this site can fill in the details for us.

Best,
Loren

 

[Cory B]

All of the pumps are the "intelligent variety", with some sort of control electronics in them (not just a float switch).

My bet is a part of that doesn't like the sustained high voltages. A traditional "dumb" pump and a float switch would probably be fine.

And also, as Loren suggested, the switches are not 100%. Maybe check the voltage with a voltmeter to make sure its actually completely shutting off?

 

[Guy Stevens]

This is normal

Not that it is what you want.

So how do those Intelligent pumps work anyway? Well they turn themselves on every few minutes, check the draw of the motor against the draw of the motor if it is pumping, or not, and then stay on till the amp draw drops.

They mostly burn up and die.

Simple solution, get a non intelligent pump with and ultra safety systems bilge pump switch.

I have yet to see one of the intelligent pumps that lasted. One boat I work with went through 6 of them in a summer, before we got rid of it and put a standard rule with a ultra safety systems switch in. I took a bunch of them apart before we returned them, and all of them had bad circuitry which cooked itself. Poorly designed, poorly constructed. The problem is not your electrical system (based on this issue), but the pos pumps.

Guy

 

[rwthomas1]

People at my club replace those kind of pumps each season. You know, change oil/filter, impeller, change bilge pump, etc. There is a reason they are so cheap.

I did a few informal tests with a spare Rule just to see how much water it actually pumped. I didn't quantify it but the output reduced drastically when 4ft of head and 15ft of hose was added. The ratings are "optimistic" if not outright lies.

I also noticed during my keel rebed that the keelbolts nearest to the pump and switch were all wasted. Not that a few others weren't damaged but is it coincidence that a larger proportion of the problem bolts were nearest? I am thinking maybe stray current from cheap pumps and switches?

Part of my winter refit is changing back to a PAR style or newer diaphram design with an Ultra Safety Switch.

RT

 

[chaco]

Go Remote

Totally agree with the Bilge Pump Gang. The original Bilge Pump on the E35II
was a Water Puppy Implellar Pump with Remote Pump Strainer in the Bilge.
Burned up (2) Impellar Pumps from dry starting due to lack of use.
The impellars expand when they come in contact with Diesel Fuel in your bilge
and get stuck in the pump body. These pumps seem to work just fine with
constant use like a bait tank. Changed over to the PAR Diaphram Pump with
added 3/4" inlet strainer to protect the Pump from Bilge Floaters.
Installed an Electronic Float Switch-no moving parts and 3Way ON-OFF-AUTO
Operating Switch with Breaker wired directy to the Battery Buss.
This SetUp has worked out to be totally reliable for intermittant Bilge Pump
operation for a DRY Bilge with no backflow

Happy Dry Bilge

 

[Loren Beach]

Related topic...

Meanwhile, is Ralph jotting down chords and lyrics for:
"The Burned Out Pump Switch Blues" ? "Bilge of Heartbreak" ?
or, "Sump of Loneliness" ??

(we would not want to *Rule* out the possibility!)



LB

 

[rgoff]

Loren,

Just as soon as I get back to my boat, I'm going to pick up my guitar, put that burned out pump beside me and see what I can come up with!