Big Gulp (water in the exhaust) E29

[thomthod]

So Friday night I went to check on the boat and get it ready for sailing on Saturday. The oil alarm kicked on right as I started my Beta marine 20. I checked the oil and it was milky white I started pumping oil out and out came water! Yikes! Last weekend I was on a race on the ocean and we had seas 4-6 feet with occasional 10 footers. It was so rough my whole crew of 3 got sick over 3 times each. <o></o>
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Well I did 4 oil changes to get the water out and on the fourth put on a new Oil Filter. I have been told that more often than people would think. Somebody told me to check to see if I have an exhaust loop. I do not, nor do I have a check valve. In fact the exhaust is pretty much a straight shot forward to the engine in my ericson 29. I think I will look to put a loop or check valve in. Another remedy was to put a flapper on the back. Has anyone done that?<o></o>
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T<o></o>

 

[Loren Beach]

Our boat had (still has) a high loop in the exhaust hose afer it leaves the waterlift muffler. It loops up right to the underside of the edge of the cockpit locker lid. From there it slopes down rather quickly, and finally the last few feet are a gentle slope to the transom outlet.
While not applicable for 99% of all of our sailing, I have read of ocean sailing boats with an actual large-size shut off valve for the exhaust, just inside the transom. They do have to remember (or red-tag) the key switch to remember to open that valve before starting the engine again.

An intermediate step might be to install one of those rubber flappers on the external exhaust fitting. At least that would close under the force of a surging wave to stop the initial slug of water from coming in. Not much use, imho, if the wave is large enough to submerge the exhaust for very long, though.


Loren

 

[Emerald]

As Loren points out, the standard practice is to have a loop that comes as high as possible and as close to cetnerline as possible. I would not put a check valve in the system. My experience with them in exhaust is they will freeze up and can't be relied upon. The flapper might work, but I would be inclined to plumb a proper loop and then if necessary, add the shut off valve Loren has mentioned.

 

[Glyn Judson]

Staunching sea water from entering the hose.

ALl, Loren's comment reminds me of the story a friend, Charlie Dewell, tells when single handing his 20 foot Pacific Seacraft Flicka, KAWABUNGA to French Polynesia. At one point he was pooped or pooped several times and as a result the diesel tank vent situated on the transom, ingested enough salt water to cause it to destroy his little 1-cylinder /yanmar engine. Te tells of having it rebuilt while down there prior to returning from there via Hawaii to Marina del Rey, from whence he started Kawabunga's South Seas Adventure http://www.amazon.com/Kawabungas-South-Seas-Adventure-Microexplorer/dp/0966647203. Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey CA

 

[Tom Metzger]

I was on my way to Bermuda in an Allied Seabreeze 35 thirty some years ago and got pooped. We filled the cylinders on the Gray Marine 25 and didn't get it running again until we got there. A PITA. We installed a valve in the exhaust for the return trip which did its job - no storms.

Some years later I was sailing on Lk Ontario in the same boat in 60 kts downwind and got pooped again. The owner never used the valve on the lake because he never had had a problem there. By this time he had repowered with an M-25XP which wasn't so able to compress water and blew the engine when it restarted.

I spent a week last year on the boat again on the lake with no excitement, but after all of this time it's getting harder to get in trouble.

 

[thomthod]

I was at the boat last night and found I do have 2 check valves that pretty much suck! The guy from CENTEK said in so many words they cannot be relied on. I may end up doing a valve cause I dont think I can fit a loop in there ! Ughhhhh



Hello Thomas,


The check valves are meant to aid in preventing a surge of water from passing. It should be used in conjunction with a properly laid our system which in your case you stated it is not possible. A shut-off valve would be a sure method to prevent the surge of water from passing but measures must be taken to ensure the valve is open before starting the engine.

Bert BrowningCentek Industries, Inc.
Manager, Product Design & Engineering
Mechanical Engineer
Phone: +1-229-228-7653
Mobile: +1-229-224-5653
Fax: +1-229-228-1270
SKYPE: bertbrowning


On May 1, 2012, at 8:32 AM, "Mason, Thomas" :

​

Good morning</SPAN></SPAN>

I have a 71 Ericson 29 that has a Beta marine 20 for an engine. I have what I believe are 2 centek check valves, I know one is for sure. One is close to the stern and the other is close to the engine. Last weekend we had a rough sail with following seas and I took a “gulp” thru the exhaust into the engine. Amazingly I got the water out of the crank case and cycled 4 oil changes to facilitate it.</SPAN></SPAN>

Are these check valves supposed to prevent such an occurrence? If not is there a way to repair these units? The boat is relatively small and not much room to put in a LOOP. Should I put in a shut off before the check valve and red flag the start key to avoid such in the event it happens again?</SPAN></SPAN>




Thanks</SPAN></SPAN>


Thom Mason</SPAN></SPAN>

 

[thomthod]

exhaust shut off valve

I have no room to put a loop in so I have decided to put in a shuttoff valve. I found a Conbraco Apollo Ball valve that is for soldering. 70LF20801 The ODs are 2.16", and the OD of the check valve is 2", so I have to figure the hose ID is a smidge over 2".


Does anybody have any other ideas?


thanks


T

 

[thomthod]

oooops I meant 2.13!

 

[toddster]

My take-home from the discussion was that even if you have the loop as high as you can, it can be defeated if you get pooped. So the valve seems like good insurance for going off-shore. If you remember to use it.
I'd try to do both.

Replacing the exhaust hose is "on my list" anyway... it's currently a piece of straight PVC pipe with a radiator hose at each end. :rolleyes_d:


edit: I recall there was some discussion over at the Moyer forum about stand-pipe vs. water-lift exhausts being less vulnerable. But only relevant if a new muffler is on the horizon.

 

[rwthomas1]

I would try to size the valve so that the smallest restriction is the same ID at the current exhaust hose. Any reduction in ID will restrict flow and possibly reduce power. If its a sweat/solder valve you could neck down on the outside with copper to match hose to inner ID of valve. I would also think that a flapper valve on the outside of the exhaust outlet a prudent addition? It could only help. RT

 

[toddster]

OTOH, we're talking about some pretty large valve bodies here. I use those sizes in my irrigation system. The rubber-hose connections for them might not be easy to find, and some sort of custom bracket to hold them down will probably be needed. (Usually they get held in place by their connection to large rigid pipes.)

You go first. I'll watch.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Check valves: never on the exhaust hose. They can get fouled and stop working and you'd end up with a really busted engine.

Ball valve should work, but as suggested it MUST be in an easily accessible place or else you'd forget it.

 

[thomthod]

I found a 2 inch ball valve on EBAY for 13 bucks! Ill let yall know how it werks! With PIX!


T

 

[thomthod]

Water in oil update!

Well I had a mechanic look at the engine cause I was convinced it was a blown head gasket. The engine sits so low below the water line that exhaust needs a riser that is high. what is happening is the current design allows the water to go back into the engine. I am having a local fabricator that has done this before make a new exhaust pipe with riser. The engine has always had this problem, so whoever installed the engine just used the standard pipe with out really checking it out!!!!!!!!!

I have the ball valve and will install it once I get this rectofied!



T

 

[Maine Sail]

Well I had a mechanic look at the engine cause I was convinced it was a blown head gasket. The engine sits so low below the water line that exhaust needs a riser that is high. what is happening is the current design allows the water to go back into the engine. I am having a local fabricator that has done this before make a new exhaust pipe with riser. The engine has always had this problem, so whoever installed the engine just used the standard pipe with out really checking it out!!!!!!!!!

I have the ball valve and will install it once I get this rectofied!



T

If you run the exhaust hose high up into the cockpt coamings, then down to the outlet, and place a siphon break at the "peak" of it you should not need a ball valve. Forget to open the valve, not good......... The riser should be at least above the static waterline and as close to center in the boat as possible? Who did this Beta install? I am sure Stanley would love to chat with them....

 

[windjunkee]

We had water back up into the engine of our Atomic 4 quite regularly. It happened most frequently in following seas. We increased the height of the riser, then put a drain on the muffler. That seemed to do the trick. When the engine is not running, we simply let the muffler drain any water that backs through the exhaust system before it reaches the engine. We clamp off the drain when the engine is running.

Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32-2 Hull #134
Redondo Beach, CA