Baja Ha Ha sinking

goldenstate

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author

There was a "professional" delivery captain on board, one I can only assume had been paid to provide guidance to a novice owner.

What gave me special pause was that I once entered negotiations with the same guy to deliver my boat back from Hawaii. I was warned of his poor reputation by a fellow Ericson forum member.

They were, essentially, taking a needlessly dangerous route near shore and hitting a rock. As someone who has taken a needlessly dangerous route near shore and hit a rock, I can only say it is the most expensive and annoying way to learn conservatism in seamanship. Glad everyone is okay.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Wow, that's really sad. At least no one was killed.

I just read thru the long thread about this over on SA. Depressing that someone could be so desperate for a delivery crew that they would hire that guy. He's a well known boat-breaker.
This new incident was briefly discussed at our morning coffee-and-walking group yesterday, and the only guess we can make is that there is literally no competition in the delivery biz anymore. (And 30 years ago there was never very darned much.)

Heck, half the guys around the table have hundreds of crew delivery miles, or thousands, and none of them has ever wanted to log hours and sit for the exam. I very occasionally wonder if I should have tried for a license just to please my ego, but knowing two other good delivery skippers, it was never a job that I really wanted to do for low $ and high liability.
I just stand watches at sea, and always hand the helm over to the owner when approaching the dock! :)
 
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bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
so desperate for a delivery crew that they would hire that guy.

Yeah. So much wrong, it's hard to know where to start. From an owner's perspective,

-- the boat wasn't ready. Owner should have been aware (or made aware) and made some hard decisions before the boat left the dock. And, for-sure, leaving then having to turn back a few hours later because of problems should have been a big wake-up call before deciding to leave again.

-- the route was poorly planned (and horribly executed). ANY reputable cruising guide - plus the Ha Ha instructions - indicate staying well offshore of the coast until southwest of the entrance to Turtle Bay. IIRC, the Ha-Ha waypoint provided to skippers is something like 15 miles outside the entrance. The entrance is roughly mile wide, and well marked, but the rocks on either side have eaten more than a few boats that tried to cut a corner. Following the 10m contour along there is a Really Bad Idea.

-- if they were having problems (rig, sails, electrical, whatever), the right move is almost always to get further offshore. If hull-integrity is not compromised, sea-room represents time and space to sort things out. NOTHING good ever happens right along a rocky coast. Hell, they had a 20k offshore breeze, according to reports. They could have dropped sails, turned off the engine and *drifted* out to a safe distance. Would have been a lot smarter than turning towards dirt.

-- a whole lot of other decision making was... suboptimal. Like, if you're up against the beach headed toward a rocky entrance, and your autopilot is acting up... turn off the freakin' autopilot and put someone who knows how to steer a safe course on the helm. Problems cascade in a chain, and the farther upstream you can cut the chain the better. Of all things, putting effort into basic safety- and navigation practices (in that order, IMO) is the best option... putting time and effort into trying to fix the autopilot or figure out what's wrong with the electrical system or updating waypoints on the tablet is a waste of time, and probably made things demonstrably worse.

-- and... I'll be cautious here, I know the guy... 15 minutes on social media would have been more than enough of a background check to make me decide to hire someone - anyone - else.

When I was doing deliveries for-hire, I had a contract (*). part of that contract was that I was the "person in charge" for the trip, even if the owner was aboard. I always had the owner put me as a "named operator" on their insurance *and* I got my own insurance binder for the trip. I went over routes with the owner, plus comms-plans (in the days when SSB was the only option), plus bail-out contingencies if I needed to avoid unfavorable weather or address problems while enroute. I didn't usually insist on a pre-delivery survey - the boats I was running were usually professionally-maintained race boats - but I always-always-always did full mechanical, systems and rig-checks, plus all sorts of common pre-trip work (oil-change, filter-changes, battery checks), plus a sea trial, before committing to specific timing. There were more than a few deliveries I turned down because either the boat wasn't sufficiently ready, or because the owner's insistence on a date would have put me in a weather window that felt sketchy.

(*) I did get my license - 100-ton, it helped with insurance - and did log my miles. But IMO, the key bit to all of it was putting enough prep in, up front, to *avoid* sketchy situations. From what I've read, seems like neither the owner nor the "captain" did that in this case.

$.02
 
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southofvictor

Member III
Blogs Author
I was there as crew on Endless Summer out of Alameda. While ashore a couple of our crew talked with owner and crew but they were all still pretty much in shock so not much info that hasn’t already been said.

Good news that nobody was hurt or killed and the Mexican authorities and community of Bahia Tortugas were very helpful and supportive - hotel, meals, transportation, etc for the crew.

We entered at night and it was pretty straightforward - stay off until the harbor light was well clear of the north entrance light then turn in keeping it lined up with another light ashore. Someone made the observation that the entrance at Bahia Tortugas is wider than the Golden Gate. No excuse to cut the corner that I can see.
 

p.gazibara

Member III
Never enter an unfamiliar harbor at night.
Some of the best advice anyone has ever given us. Though we have ignored it a few times. Entering Bahia Tortuga was one of those times...

I never trusted charts in MX so we always kept at minimum one nm offshore, usually 3. We sailed into Bahia Tortuga without a depth sounder and with old charts... at night. Tacked our way up the middle of the channel and sailed slowly. It was very easy, we were doublehanded.

I worked at a reputable navigation company testing their autopilots. I would never trust an AP that locked you out from the helm for any period of time when it was not in use. That trip could be done without an AP pretty easily if the boat was crewed by 3 or more. In 20kn offshore, the jib/reefed main alone could easily keep you underway slowly without big loads. Sounds like ideal sailing conditions to me. If they didn't trust the rig then, I'm curious how they planned to make Cabo? It's easily another 500 miles.

I also read a bit about some charting software not functioning in his write-up, made me wonder if they had a... compass onboard. Very easily to tell if your heading is off with the most basic of navigation devices. Unless of course you place something magnetic right next to it. I would hope a seasoned delivery captain could follow a bearing into an anchorage compitantly... Its the most basic thing they test in the RNZYS Ocean ticket. I did sit the course for a captain's license in Seattle before we left, just to make sure there wasn't anything important that I was unaware of. There was no practical exam, this is probably why they don't recognize a US captains license for commercial work outside the USA.

I try not to be too hard on people, but everything about this account sounded like poor decisions. Glad nobody was hurt.
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
Apropos of nothing (and not Ericson-related)... the licensed captain in question is now in the middle of delivering a powerboat to Hawaii.

54-foot, coastal-rated powerboat, overloaded with (estimated) 14,000 lbs of fuel in an assortment of barrels and bladders - which nobody seems sure is sufficient to get the boat to Hawaii - currently encountering some "interesting" weather and wave conditions. Reports indicate 5-6 meter seas on the beam and a pretty significant low developing.

I've been tracking progress as time (and AIS pings) permit, and have to say it's both fascinating and horrifying. Certainly not a delivery job *I* would have taken, but... maybe that's just me.
 

p.gazibara

Member III
Apropos of nothing (and not Ericson-related)... the licensed captain in question is now in the middle of delivering a powerboat to Hawaii.

54-foot, coastal-rated powerboat, overloaded with (estimated) 14,000 lbs of fuel in an assortment of barrels and bladders - which nobody seems sure is sufficient to get the boat to Hawaii - currently encountering some "interesting" weather and wave conditions. Reports indicate 5-6 meter seas on the beam and a pretty significant low developing.

I've been tracking progress as time (and AIS pings) permit, and have to say it's both fascinating and horrifying. Certainly not a delivery job *I* would have taken, but... maybe that's just me.
I have also been keeping an eye. Nearly time to break out the popcorn…

I would also have passed on the delivery. Imagine transferring fuel from one of those bladders with 5m seas on the beam!

This guy’s antics are wild. I do t know him personally, but I have a few friends that do. Nobody speaks highly of him. There is a thread on SA and it appears he claimed 100hrs of his captains license from sailing a laser.
 

goldenstate

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
I have also been keeping an eye. Nearly time to break out the popcorn…

I would also have passed on the delivery. Imagine transferring fuel from one of those bladders with 5m seas on the beam!

This guy’s antics are wild. I do t know him personally, but I have a few friends that do. Nobody speaks highly of him. There is a thread on SA and it appears he claimed 100hrs of his captains license from sailing a laser.
What is the name of the boat being delivered?
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
5-6 meter seas on the beam and a pretty significant low developing.

latest conjecture of Lana Lei's track (from Sailing Anarchy), projecting the track across where the low will be in two days

17 foot waves on 11s period. Ugh.

track.jpg
 

Pete the Cat

Member III
latest conjecture of Lana Lei's track (from Sailing Anarchy), projecting the track across where the low will be in two days

17 foot waves on 11s period. Ugh.

View attachment 48801
That would be a pisser. Especially in an oversized and light coastal motor yacht. With an 11 sec period--think about that coming down behind you. This delivery skipper might not be a threat to future owners.
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
latest position from AIS, a couple of hours ago

1702920336888.png

That puts them about 810nm from Hilo, or 950nm from Honolulu.

No info about fuel state. They've been maintaining an average speed of ~5k for the last couple of days, which should (*) keep consumption to about 5gph, but no one really knows whether the fuel on board will be enough

(*) the fuel consumption rate - and resulting fuel-load was calculated based on a test run from Marina del Rey to Catalina and back. But the boat wasn't loaded up for that test, plus... they've spent a fair amount of time over the past couple of days motoring into seas, which has to have affected things.

It remains... strangely fascinating to watch, as it unfolds.
 
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