bigtyme805
Member III
I want to purchase a backstay adjuster for my E27, does anybody have a preference on a manufacture?
Any other information might be helpful.
Any other information might be helpful.
Backstay Adjuster
- Thread starter bigtyme805
- Start date
Block and tackle
For a boat this size, the common approach is to use a split backstay and a double block to squeeze the halves togther which is controlled with a cascading purchase system. Nigel has the trick setup on his 27-I would ask him directly for parts and pics.
Another alternative might be to find a used, self contained hydraulic backstay cylinder (most are made by Navtec) from a 30 footer.
Both will work, but I prefer the setup Nigel has-mucxh easier to adjust while sailing, since the blocks and cleats are led to the cockpit, and you don't have to have someone in the stern making the changes-the driver or main trimmer can do it themselves...
Good idea-go for it!
S
For a boat this size, the common approach is to use a split backstay and a double block to squeeze the halves togther which is controlled with a cascading purchase system. Nigel has the trick setup on his 27-I would ask him directly for parts and pics.
Another alternative might be to find a used, self contained hydraulic backstay cylinder (most are made by Navtec) from a 30 footer.
Both will work, but I prefer the setup Nigel has-mucxh easier to adjust while sailing, since the blocks and cleats are led to the cockpit, and you don't have to have someone in the stern making the changes-the driver or main trimmer can do it themselves...
Good idea-go for it!
S
don, There are those on this List far wiser than I when it comes to boats and specifically back stay adjusters but with your boat being mast-head rigged, wouldn't an adjuster do little or nothing toward mast shape? It seems to me that any force applied would simply tend to want to press the mast through the boat before shaping the mast. Glyn
Nope
All masthead rigged racing boats use backstay adjusters successfuly to control mast bend (and thus mainsail shape), and headstay sag (and thus headsail shape)-so do many cruisers.
It is true, however that those boats have bendy masts, and the 27 has a fairly stiff section, and in all of these cases there IS an element of compression-but the boat can handle a fair amount of this.
On the 27, the adjuster will provide a small amount of mast bend (quite small, but noticeable, right Nigel?), but mostly it will be VERY helpful in controlling headstay sag. You can make dramatic peformance gains by sagging it way off (loose BS) in light air, and tightening it up to limit or prevent excessive sag when the breeze come up.
VERY VERY worth it.
S
All masthead rigged racing boats use backstay adjusters successfuly to control mast bend (and thus mainsail shape), and headstay sag (and thus headsail shape)-so do many cruisers.
It is true, however that those boats have bendy masts, and the 27 has a fairly stiff section, and in all of these cases there IS an element of compression-but the boat can handle a fair amount of this.
On the 27, the adjuster will provide a small amount of mast bend (quite small, but noticeable, right Nigel?), but mostly it will be VERY helpful in controlling headstay sag. You can make dramatic peformance gains by sagging it way off (loose BS) in light air, and tightening it up to limit or prevent excessive sag when the breeze come up.
VERY VERY worth it.
S
windjunkee
Member III
We purchased a Navtek hydraulic backstay adjustor for our 32-2. We bought it used but it works great. We thought about the split backstay set up but decided against it because of where the splits would be in relation to the driver. With the Navtek, we only had to cut down the backstay to accommodate the device and otherwise made no other alterations. Performance improved dramatically. We love it.
Jim McCone
Voice Of Reason E-32-2 Hull #134
Jim McCone
Voice Of Reason E-32-2 Hull #134
Nigel Barron
Notorious Iconoclast
You would be really surprised how much bend you can induce. Sure the addition of a baby-stay exagerates this slightly! 
I will take some pictures after the Pulley Point race this weekend. To be honest, I can't really remember what a stock backstay on the E27 looks like anymore. I am not sure if it comes down from the masthead to a split leg or not. I switched from wire to vectran and then created the cascade of blocks from that. Anyway, I shall take some pictures.
I will take some pictures after the Pulley Point race this weekend. To be honest, I can't really remember what a stock backstay on the E27 looks like anymore. I am not sure if it comes down from the masthead to a split leg or not. I switched from wire to vectran and then created the cascade of blocks from that. Anyway, I shall take some pictures.
bigtyme805
Member III
The reason I want a backstay adjuster is simply because I added a roller furler with a 150 genoa. Going to weather creates a slight bend in the forestay and my rigger has adjusted it and says it would be wise to add a backstay adjuster to tension the forestay. My rig has a split backstay on it so the adjuster would be a simple set-up. Also, when at the dock I could loosen the tension to create less stress on the rig, making it last much longer.
It seems there are 4 major players in these set-ups, Harken, Schaffer, Johnson and something that starts with a G. Navtec specializes in Hydraulic adjusters, don't need that.
I bet the guy(Can't recall his name) who races his E27 with many wins under his belt knows the best thing to go with. Maybe Nigel?
It seems there are 4 major players in these set-ups, Harken, Schaffer, Johnson and something that starts with a G. Navtec specializes in Hydraulic adjusters, don't need that.
I bet the guy(Can't recall his name) who races his E27 with many wins under his belt knows the best thing to go with. Maybe Nigel?
Morgan Stinemetz
Moderator
Re: stock split backstay on E-27, take a look at the first photo in the profile of my boat, Reefer, at the owner profile part of this forum. You can see the backstay. It is stock. I attach a 4:1 block and tackle to it when racing for better sail shape.
Morgan Stinemetz
Morgan Stinemetz
Right track
You are on the right track-when you get this, just remember that headstay sag (bend is what the mast does) is something the sail NEEDS to assume the shape the designers intended. Usually it is optimal around 3-5".
The proper use of the adjuster is to INDUCE sag when the air is light, and prevent excessive sag when it is windy (of course it is a fine idea to unload the rig when at the dock-but not so much that everything swings around with each passing wake-this can fatigue things as much as over loading!).
Contrary to some posts here, a bone straight HS will not point as well as one with the proper amount of sag-unless the sail was designed for this, and none are.
You will point higher and have a wider steering groove with a loose headstay (but not so loose that it jumps around each time you hit a wave) in the light stuff--and in the big air it is simply a matter of controlling so you don't have excessive sag.
Beat to death?
Cheers,
S
You are on the right track-when you get this, just remember that headstay sag (bend is what the mast does) is something the sail NEEDS to assume the shape the designers intended. Usually it is optimal around 3-5".
The proper use of the adjuster is to INDUCE sag when the air is light, and prevent excessive sag when it is windy (of course it is a fine idea to unload the rig when at the dock-but not so much that everything swings around with each passing wake-this can fatigue things as much as over loading!).
Contrary to some posts here, a bone straight HS will not point as well as one with the proper amount of sag-unless the sail was designed for this, and none are.
You will point higher and have a wider steering groove with a loose headstay (but not so loose that it jumps around each time you hit a wave) in the light stuff--and in the big air it is simply a matter of controlling so you don't have excessive sag.
Beat to death?
Cheers,
S
Jeff Asbury
Principal Partner
This worked on my old MacGregor 2-22.
This is not the greatest example, but it worked on my old MacGregor 2-22 swing keel sailboat. Since my E-27 has a stock split aft stay I have always considered doing something similar. I agree about the recommended for a 4 to 1 purchase for the E-27. This system was very effective on the MacGregor because the mast was easily bent.
This is not the greatest example, but it worked on my old MacGregor 2-22 swing keel sailboat. Since my E-27 has a stock split aft stay I have always considered doing something similar. I agree about the recommended for a 4 to 1 purchase for the E-27. This system was very effective on the MacGregor because the mast was easily bent.
Attachments
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SplitBackStay.jpg
Welll....
I could buy the 4:1 for the Macgregor, but for the stumpy 27 rig, I think 4:1 with a doubler (cascading system) is really the minimum for CONVENIENT adjustment. When breezy, and if you have the rig set up so that you can have lots of sag when it is light, you will need a pretty manly tug of the 4:1 to get there:0305_alar :0305_alar -adding the doubler (now 8:1) makes it usuable..
I'll bet Nigel has at least this much purchase-right?
S
I could buy the 4:1 for the Macgregor, but for the stumpy 27 rig, I think 4:1 with a doubler (cascading system) is really the minimum for CONVENIENT adjustment. When breezy, and if you have the rig set up so that you can have lots of sag when it is light, you will need a pretty manly tug of the 4:1 to get there:0305_alar :0305_alar -adding the doubler (now 8:1) makes it usuable..
I'll bet Nigel has at least this much purchase-right?
S
bigtyme805
Member III
I wanted to thank everybody who replied to my request. I added the backstay adjuster and what a difference. When going to weather with the winds up I no longer have the excessive sag from in my forestay. That roller furler with that 150 really added some weight to the standing rigging, something I was not use to.
I will take some pictures for future e27 owners who want to put an adjuster on their boat.
I will take some pictures for future e27 owners who want to put an adjuster on their boat.
bigtyme805
Member III
Picture
Finished installing backstay adjuster
Finished installing backstay adjuster
Attachments
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backstay adjuster 1.jpg
Mike Thomas
Member II
Don,
I have the exact same setup on my 29 and it works fine. Seth is right in that you may have to put a good tug on it but it's not that bad.
You'll like it I'm sure.........
Mike T
E-29
I have the exact same setup on my 29 and it works fine. Seth is right in that you may have to put a good tug on it but it's not that bad.
You'll like it I'm sure.........
Mike T
E-29
Mike Thomas
Member II
Now you need to go for a rigid boom vang and get rid of that topping lift. You'll like that even more than the B/S adjuster.
Mike T
E-29
Mike T
E-29
bigtyme805
Member III
Mike
That is so funny because I was looking at one online at West Marine today and wondered how much benefit it would be for me.
Do you think there would be much benefit on my E27?
Thanks,
Don
That is so funny because I was looking at one online at West Marine today and wondered how much benefit it would be for me.
Do you think there would be much benefit on my E27?
Thanks,
Don
Mike Thomas
Member II
was Backstay Adjuster now Rigid Vang
Don,
If you do a good deal of off wind sailing or club racing you will see a marked improvement. It really helps with control and shape of the main sail.
Another plus is that it eliminates the topping lift.
Before you go to WM (unless it's a close out or something) take a look at the rigid boom vangs at Garhauer Marine and do a search through the EY.Org archives. Over the past two years there has been 4-5 threads on them. I don't know of anyone that has installed one and not been happy with it.
The Garhauer's are not high-tech gas-filled modern looking Harkin types, which in my humble opinion look out of place on our classics. They are spring loaded chrome tubes. When you order one, Garhauer makes up custom brackets to fit you specific boom and mast. They are also great folks to deal with in general.
Mike T
Don,
If you do a good deal of off wind sailing or club racing you will see a marked improvement. It really helps with control and shape of the main sail.
Another plus is that it eliminates the topping lift.
Before you go to WM (unless it's a close out or something) take a look at the rigid boom vangs at Garhauer Marine and do a search through the EY.Org archives. Over the past two years there has been 4-5 threads on them. I don't know of anyone that has installed one and not been happy with it.
The Garhauer's are not high-tech gas-filled modern looking Harkin types, which in my humble opinion look out of place on our classics. They are spring loaded chrome tubes. When you order one, Garhauer makes up custom brackets to fit you specific boom and mast. They are also great folks to deal with in general.
Mike T