36c transom leak

[Don Furber]

Hi Folks; Just recently sold my 1977 36c to an experienced sailor who is very happy with his new boat. But here's the situation: he is currently on his way to Hawaii from Mexico and has found that he is making water as a result of following seas climbing into the transom cutout that provides access to the quadrant and steering ram. I had never seen that happen and am looking for ideas from any other 36c owner who might have an idea of what is going on back there. I can relay info to him via his DeLorme inreach system. Thanks.

 

[Glyn Judson]

Transom leak.

Don, I may be able to shed some light on the problem on the assumption that the E36 quadrant locker bulkheads are like the ones in the E31. In our case they were poorly glassed in and actually allow water into the hull through unfinished holes in the upper aft corners of each bulkhead, photos attached. Both port & starboard corners are the same. The other possibility might be water entering through the hole in each bulkhead (out of view in the last photo) that routes the steering cables to the quadrant, photo of those just cables attached also. My best shot, Glyn Judson E31, hull #55, Marina del Rey CA

 

[Don Furber]

Don, I may be able to shed some light on the problem on the assumption that the E36 quadrant locker bulkheads are like the ones in the E31. In our case they were poorly glassed in and actually allow water into the hull through unfinished holes in the upper aft corners of each bulkhead, photos attached. Both port & starboard corners are the same. The other possibility might be water entering through the hole in each bulkhead (out of view in the last photo) that routes the steering cables to the quadrant, photo of those just cables attached also. My best shot, Glyn Judson E31, hull #55, Marina del Rey CA

Thanks Glyn...sounds like a reasonable possibility. I'd never inspected carefully when I had the boat hauled out so don't know about gaps in the glass work. But there must also be ports designed to accommodate the cables and/or hydraulic hoses which would let water in when going down swell if it's rough.

 

[Glyn Judson]

Transom leak.

Don, There's every possibility that you would never see those gaps and come to think of it, I don't know how I ever spotted them. To see them with the naked eye, you'd have to literally stick your head in there, then crane your neck to the left and right and upwards to spot them. I've attached two images of the, frankly, pretty crude cable entry points as found in E31, hull #03 and have to assume that all our boats are fitted with the same or similar hardware. Hope this helps, Glyn

 

[Don Furber]

Don, There's every possibility that you would never see those gaps and come to think of it, I don't know how I ever spotted them. To see them with the naked eye, you'd have to literally stick your head in there, then crane your neck to the left and right and upwards to spot them. I've attached two images of the, frankly, pretty crude cable entry points as found in E31, hull #03 and have to assume that all our boats are fitted with the same or similar hardware. Hope this helps, Glyn

Good pictures, you must be on your boat right now. I think there must be even larger holes in the 36c as there is more to the hydraulic steering in that area. Unless he gets virtually becalmed I doubt my friend can do much about it at sea. And I didn't mention that he's solo either. I hope to have all the info he needs from Scanmar so he can get a Monitor installed when he arrives.

 

[Glyn Judson]

E31 photo archive.

Don, Actually I'm at home sitting at my computer which allows me to easily tap into a few more than 3,000 photo images I have collected since 1994 of 71 separate E31 hulls. These are photos that owners have sent to me and in some cases, ones I've taken myself. They have proven to be an invaluable resource for others such as you, your friend and many other E31 owners. Glad to help where I can, Glyn

 

[PacificJim]

Following Seas on an E-36C?

Hi Don. I'm wondering how your friend is doing? I'm looking at doing the EXACT same thing as they are (taking a E 36C to Hawaii, etc.) and hearing about him taking on some water via a following sea (downwind/broad reach?) has me concerned. I'd be in the same situation, needing some form of solution, prior to departure preferably! Is there anyway you could put me in touch with your friend? ...Once they're in a place they can communicate easily I'd love to ask them some questions about their experiences crossing the big pond in their E36C. Thanks! -Jim

 

[Don Furber]

Hi Don. I'm wondering how your friend is doing? I'm looking at doing the EXACT same thing as they are (taking a E 36C to Hawaii, etc.) and hearing about him taking on some water via a following sea (downwind/broad reach?) has me concerned. I'd be in the same situation, needing some form of solution, prior to departure preferably! Is there anyway you could put me in touch with your friend? ...Once they're in a place they can communicate easily I'd love to ask them some questions about their experiences crossing the big pond in their E36C. Thanks! -Jim

Hi Jim; I assume you can see the reply I received from Glyn Judson complete with photos. That's a very good place to start with trouble shooting. Let me know if you can't see that info and I'll get it to you somehow, or maybe Glyn would send it to you also. In any case, for now go look into the transom with good light and mirrors and whatever it takes to verify if the whole area is properly glassed in, and what you might have to do to limit water getting through holes for cables, rams or however your pilot connects.
No problem with getting my friend in touch later. He's been hand steering (solo) for the best part of a month and may want to decompress for a bit first however. Oh, the most recent failure was the steering cable itself so he's been using an emergency tiller for over a week. Check your whole system thoroughly, and if you can afford it get a Monitor wind vane too.
Get back to me if I can help. Don

 

[PacificJim]

Following Seas...

Hi Jim; I assume you can see the reply I received from Glyn Judson complete with photos.... ....Check your whole system thoroughly, and if you can afford it get a Monitor wind vane too.
Get back to me if I can help. Don

I can see the pics and the thread, thanks!
We've not got our E36c yet- just learned about them recently and LOVE what we've learned. The one we're looking at has a monitor (?) Windvane/steering system installed already on it (which I didn't realize when I posted this). As a new, possible-soon-to-be prospective owner, coming from a double-ender, the flat stern and following seas issue on a cruise path we're considering this summer definitely got my attention. I do want to talk or hear about the experience your friend has had (sounds like they were also a new owner?) once they've decompressed!

Looking at the design as a new person, why is the hole for the tiller bracket so oversized? To me, it looks like it could be reduced quite a bit to help keep OUT following seas, in open water. This could be done either via some kind of simple patch, or even something more polished - like a patch WITH a moving plate attached on a hinged bolt TO the outside to the rudder bracket itself, sliding back and froth over the hole.

Anyone know why these tiller bracket holes are oversized? Doesn't look to me like it NEEDS to be that large. Obviously to remove the tiller you'd need to unmount the bracket, pulling it into the boat, so... why the oversized hole there?

Don: best of luck to your friend- steering by hand solo would indeed be tiring.

 

[Glyn Judson]

Size of the transom aperture and sea water management.

Jim, I think the simple answer is that the quadrant arm needs that much of an opening in order to move from port to starboard, lock to lock. If you take a look at the photos of my quadrant locker in the #2 post above, you'll see where the factory did a pretty poor job sealing up the space. I feel that if it were the same in the boat you are considering, it would be a pretty simple task to repair those holes, then the size of the quadrant ellipse would be irrelevant because water runs out as fast as it comes in on our boat and I'd have to assume the same for the EC36. Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey CA

 

[PacificJim]

Vertical TillerArm -Hull-Hole Size - Clearance?

Jim, I think the simple answer is that the quadrant arm needs that much of an opening in order to move from port to starboard, lock to lock....

Agreed. I'm more curious regarding the vertical size/clearance of the hole there where the tiller arm enters the hull.

...From what I've seen, it appears that to remove the steering arm (say to service the rudder, etc) one separates it from the tiller itself, pulling it inboard. However the yoke that hugs the tiller on the tiller-steering arm doesn't itself (-?) need so much vertical hole clearance?
-!!!
I haven't looked at the tiller-hull entry yet up close on the E36c, so just curious if it's one of the typical design "flaw" or compromises (in this case to have wheel steering).

...I keep thinking about this fellow solo hand-steering to Hawaii from the states right now, and taking on following seas, which isn't so uncommon points of sail for a cruising boat all things considered. Even if the steering mechanism compartment drains quickly (and any further ingress is sealed), every little thing like that can ad up. A lot has been learned over the decades in finding solutions to reduce the compromises in designs. I would think there is a not-too-difficult solution to sealing up these aft areas from the sea without going to full tiller steering.

If it's the same on the E36c, I think one of our first projects would be to find a solution there to keep following seas out (as much as possible) from that stern compartment. I would think a plate on the tiller arm that follows the hull as the tiller turns would do a lot towards that end.

Come to think of it, I once saw someone with a flat-stern who had a stainless plate manufactured to sit against the hull, that the tiller-arm went through. He had a piece of old plywood stuck to the tiller arm on the outside. I didn't know what it was at the time, being young, but I'm guessing now that it was a jury-rig en-route so when following seas would get against the stern, it would press the plywood against the plate, stopping a lot of the sea from entering through the tiller-arm hole. ...Anyway. Just curious. If we get the E36c we'll be in a lot of situations where I'll care about following seas.

...If you take a look at the photos of my quadrant locker in the #2 post above, you'll see where the factory did a pretty poor job sealing up the space...

-Great shots by the way -not everyone would have gone in there AND then posted the results! Thank you!