On the water transmissions replacement

On the water transmission replacement

Ever wonder what an E35-III looks like without an engine? Well, this past weekend my transmission died 80 miles from home:headb: and I replaced it in less than a day. Here are some photos. The full story of my trip from Mattapoisett, MA to Portland, Maine is under the cruising section.

BTW, not me in the photos. I did most of the grunt work and relied on my good friend, Steve, the marine mechanic for all the technical stuff. I have rebuilt and installed my share of automotive engines and trannys but this was my first marine setup.

Tranny replacement..

Thanks very much for the advice. I gather from your pictures that there was no way to remove and reinstall the tranny without taking out the engine. I was hoping to just lift and tilt the engine to get the tranny out???

Still unsure whether to repair or replace? Repair mechanic advised against new Hurth. Apparently having lots of problems with the new ones.

Hurth Replacement

Hello. Had to replace transmission on our '87 E32-3 back in June'03. I had a mechanic replace the thing for 1800.00 That was for the trans and labor. He did not remove the engine. We have had no problems since then. I did discover that a slower shifting trans. is the first indication of low fluid. The second stage was hearing a low, however hi-pitched noise. After it froze up, I realized I was burning up the bearings. The thing had already been rebuilt once and couldn't see rebuilding a rebuilt trans again. I have the HBW-50 as well. A rather expensive lesson, but well learned. I normally don't exceed 1800 RPM. Hurth advised the trans was on the small side for a 21hp engine. He further stated 1800rpm should be ok.. Needless to say, I check the fluid more often now. I think it only holds around 10oz. or so..

Trannie

Thanks for the pics; I'm about to replace the motor mounts; Engines1 sold me 4 mounts; i could only see 3; looks like yours has 3 as well. I can't believe the coments about the Hurth; that thing should take a pounding; up to the rpm limit. Make sure it has fluid. According to the manual you can shift forward to reverse full throttle (for emergency situations only please).

Ed Balun said:

Hello. Had to replace transmission on our '87 E32-3 back in June'03. I had a mechanic replace the thing for 1800.00 That was for the trans and labor. He did not remove the engine. We have had no problems since then. I did discover that a slower shifting trans. is the first indication of low fluid. The second stage was hearing a low, however hi-pitched noise. After it froze up, I realized I was burning up the bearings. The thing had already been rebuilt once and couldn't see rebuilding a rebuilt trans again. I have the HBW-50 as well. A rather expensive lesson, but well learned. I normally don't exceed 1800 RPM. Hurth advised the trans was on the small side for a 21hp engine. He further stated 1800rpm should be ok.. Needless to say, I check the fluid more often now. I think it only holds around 10oz. or so..

Click to expand...

Yeah, I was told the same thing (from a Hurth mechanic in Port Townsend) about my Hurth 50 - not to go over 1800 for sustained periods (no cruising above it)...

//sse

Hurth Transmissions

Our 35-III has the massive (425 lb) Universal 8424 (24hp) engine in it instead of the more common M25. While I have been known to gripe about the extra space and weight it occupies, it did come with the Hurth 100 (next size up) transmission. Makes me wonder if the Hurth50 may be borderline sized for the M25's - but I have no technical expertise to back up that wondering.

Tim, I've impressed by your 1 day replacement. No messing around with you.

Tim,

I am trying to work up the courage to pull my trans as you did.
How did you lift the engine?

The old HBW 50 trans is no longer made. The more robust HBW 100 (now ZF10) is the recommended replacement, though some 50's are still floating around. I would like to move up to the HBW 100 but it is about 1" longer. I have only 2" of prop shaft exposed between the packing gland and the rear of the junction to the trans. I don't know if I can fit that extra 1" longer gearbox in, or not. Any words of wisdom on my chances? I guess I will disconnect it & see if I can slide the propshaft back an inch.

There are some used or rebuilt HBW 50's out there, but still expensive & I would still have a trans that is not the best available.

Thanks

Keith, we put a 4x4 across the companionway and used a come-along to lift the engine. Fairly easy job. I would say that you probably have an inch to move but not much more. You will want to measure this yourself as some boats may have a slightly different installation.

Boom

Be sure your boom is up to the task before trying this but...

I used the boom. Attached the halyard to the end along with the topping lift for extra support. Used the mainsheet block and tackle to lift. Used the outhaul to slide the motor out of the companionway towards the end which allowed me to swing the motor over the side and lower it down.

That was to completely remove it of course. Take a couple of the last steps off and your done.

Good luck with those motor mounts.

When you put the halyard on the boom to support it, wrap the halyard around the boom at the same spot that you will be lifting from. That way the halyad will take the load, not the boom - the boom just will be a connecting mechanism - put the halyard at the end of the boom, and then you rely on the boom's strength not to bow - ouch

You too can gain an inch or more.

Keith and all, No this isn't a male enhancement ad, it's a short (pun intended) account about how I gained 1 3/8" aft of the transmission coupling. My original Yanmar 2QM 15 & transmission had been replaced by a longer Yanmar 3GMF & transmission by a previous owner. When it was replaced, someone forgot to account for the added length which made it impossible to change the packing flax. So shortly after buying the boat and when on the hard, I cut the fiberglass shaft log back by as much as I safely could, 1 3/8" and reattached the double clamped hose. That was enough to be able to access the packing cup and I was at peace with the world. You too might also be able to do the same thing, it's just that it will necessitate being out of the water and pulling the prop shaft. By the way, the transmission behind the current Yanmar can be removed with the engine in place, I did it when I had it rebuilt. Maybe the Hurth 50 can be similarly removed? Once having loosened the top, aft motor mount nuts, I levered the back of the engine up enough for the transmission to clear the prop shaft coupling and then held it all there using sockets as temporary wedges. Of course this probably wouldn't be necessary if you were to pull the prop shaft, I just thought I'd mention that trick. Bon chance, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA

Hi Keith, I replaced the old HBW50 trans. on my E35-III by the new ZF 10 last summer and I had now problem since. Because of my folding prop I had the propeller shaft cut by 1 inch to make sure the prop clear the rudder when folded, the new transmission look more robust in deed
Éric

OK. You guys have given me a lot of info to ruminate on! My prop shaft is not too long as I have plenty of rudder clearance to add an inch, so I don't need to worry about that. As far as lifting the engine, I will lift with a come-along. I don't know about wedging it up from the rear with only a single front motor mount on this engine. I don't want to haul the boat if I don't have to, at this time. Therefore, I will try the installation without shortening the prop shaft log, if possible. If I must, I will haul later & cut the log. Now I need to find a ZF 10 (HBW 100) trans for the cheapest possible price. So far, Hale marine looks to be lowest at $1079

In the limited space on my boat, it is hard to imagine getting all this done, but somehow I will!

Thanks!

Three E31's currently available.

All, I'm posting this here because I'm not selling these boats but want to get the word out to anyone interested that there are presently three E31's for sale across the country. One is on the east coast, one on the one of the Great Lakes and the last in SoCal. As many of you know, I track the activities of these boats and always want to share the thrill of someone else getting a shot at one. If interested, please contact me back channel at glynjudson@roadrunner.com and I'll put you in touch with the owners themselves. As always, I get no gain from sharing this information other than the pleasure of putting a buyer in touch with a seller. Regards, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA

Keith,
I paid $960 a year ago to M.M.I.Seattle Inc (Marine-USA.net) 206-634-9004 for a new ZF10M 1.8:1. Shipping was $25 within state. Worked out well. I changed it with the motor in the boat. Made up an engine hoisting rig from 2 X 4s and 2 long turnbuckles. There is pictures somewhere of my setup on this web site. Hardest part is getting all the engine bell housing bolts off. Long reach and you hope not too much corrosion.
Good Luck

It's a good idea to change the damping plate at the same time because that piece of equipement and the transmission work together I think I paid to much for mine 1499$ minus 300$ for the old core ( Doctor diesel)
Eric

Jerry,
MMI wants $1547 for a ZF10 now. Ouch!

Erik,
I will definitely change the dampener plate also.

I want to know if anyone can help-me to find a place which sells shaft coupler for my E 35 III with a universal M 25 and ZF 10 transmission 1 inch prop. shaft
Eric

Try Hansen Marine.

http://www.hansenmarine.com/

Please...No Boom Engine Lifts !

Have done the Engine Replacement on the Water Thing :nerd:
Recommend the 4X4 beam across the Companionway/ComeAlong method.
With the MidEngine E35II I used an additional beam across the Salon Hatch.
The force on the beams is SIGNIFICANT to lift a 400lb Engine/Transmission.
DO NOT use your Boom to support this Lift You have the added force
of pulling the engine out of its mounts and your boom was not built for this.
Once the engine was out, I used the Boom to move it on to the dock as a
Crane Arm, secured to the Main Halyard...not the Topping Lift

Happy RePower