Winching in a headsail

[Bepi]

Has anyone other than me had to use a winch to bring in a headsail?
I was sailing in hurricane gulch off San Pedro in winds that were way stronger than forecast. I had Roxanne dead into the wind and started hauling in the jib but after a few rope burns I wrapped it around the kite winch and bit by bit got it in. It was a hectic couple of minutes I have to say.

 

[Pete the Cat]

I am thinking there is something amiss in your roller furling gear. Here are some possibilities you have already considerd:
1. Is the halyard wrapping around the headstay at the top? This can make rolling it up tough. There are numerous solutions for this--generally a halyard retainer on the mast. Schaefer makes a simple one.
2. Your headstay has too much sag in it. Generally, you need no more than 4" of sag. The internal parts of the extrusions will bind if the head stay is too slack.
3. Is your jib halyard too loose? Much easier to roll in the jib with a taut halyard. You might want to release it if you are storing the boat so as not to distort the luff of your jib over time.
Just some possibilities.

 

[Bepi]

I am thinking there is something amiss in your roller furling gear. Here are some possibilities you have already considerd:
1. Is the halyard wrapping around the headstay at the top? This can make rolling it up tough. There are numerous solutions for this--generally a halyard retainer on the mast. Schaefer makes a simple one.
2. Your headstay has too much sag in it. Generally, you need no more than 4" of sag. The internal parts of the extrusions will bind if the head stay is too slack.
3. Is your jib halyard too loose? Much easier to roll in the jib with a taut halyard. You might want to release it if you are storing the boat so as not to distort the luff of your jib over time.
Just some possibilities.

Thank you for the reply. Back at the dock she extends and furls just fine. On fridayI would get the jib about a third of the way in and then the line would just be torn from my hands. It was gusty but in the end probably operator error. I will check the halyard tension.

 

[Christian Williams]

For comparison, I can furl the full 420 square-foot genoa on my boat by hand, even in 30 knots. It's a struggle, 6 inches at a time, in those conditions (squall). As soon as the sail gets smaller it becomes progressively easier.

Critical for me is a cockpit cam cleat, with fairlead, to grab and hold the progress you make. Something like this



I use a combo block and cam, mounted on a cockpit stanchion:



The problem with snubbing the furler control line temporarily on a winch is that you can no longer pull it by hand without first relieving its tension. With a cam cleat you just pull and it saves your gain.

I'd check Pete's list. Actually, I do check his list every time I sail, especially the wrap of the line in the drum. A roller furler that doesn't work can be a problem.

 

[Kenneth K]

If you have a Harken Mark I furler, Harken is very specific about 1) having the forestay tight 2) having the furler foil "floating" in the torque tube (I.e., not bottoming out against the bronze locking collar), 3) that the upper opening of the furler foil rotates around the head stay swage fitting and not the SS stay wire, and 4) not using a winch to furl the sail.

 

[Saverio]

For comparison, I can furl the full 420 square-foot genoa on my boat by hand, even in 30 knots. It's a struggle, 6 inches at a time, in those conditions (squall). As soon as the sail gets smaller it becomes progressively easier.

Critical for me is a cockpit cam cleat, with fairlead, to grab and hold the progress you make. Something like this

View attachment 43395

I use a combo block and cam, mounted on a cockpit stanchion:

View attachment 43396

The problem with snubbing the furler control line temporarily on a winch is that you can no longer pull it by hand without first relieving its tension. With a cam cleat you just pull and it saves your gain.

I'd check Pete's list. Actually, I do check his list every time I sail, especially the wrap of the line in the drum. A roller furler that doesn't work can be a problem.

For comparison, I can furl the full 420 square-foot genoa on my boat by hand, even in 30 knots. It's a struggle, 6 inches at a time, in those conditions (squall). As soon as the sail gets smaller it becomes progressively easier.

Critical for me is a cockpit cam cleat, with fairlead, to grab and hold the progress you make. Something like this

View attachment 43395

I use a combo block and cam, mounted on a cockpit stanchion:

View attachment 43396

The problem with snubbing the furler control line temporarily on a winch is that you can no longer pull it by hand without first relieving its tension. With a cam cleat you just pull and it saves your gain.

I'd check Pete's list. Actually, I do check his list every time I sail, especially the wrap of the line in the drum. A roller furler that doesn't work can be a problem.

Hello Cristian I would like to buy like the one in your photos. Asked at the nautical shop, never seen anything like this, please can you tell me brand model, do they ship to Italy? a thousand thanks. Xavier

 

[Saverio]

the second photo is interesting you can see a throttle sheet with support for the candlestick

 

[Bolo]

Has anyone other than me had to use a winch to bring in a headsail?
I was sailing in hurricane gulch off San Pedro in winds that were way stronger than forecast. I had Roxanne dead into the wind and started hauling in the jib but after a few rope burns I wrapped it around the kite winch and bit by bit got it in. It was a hectic couple of minutes I have to say.

There could possibly be a problem with your fuller or something else but consider this strategy for rolling in a head sail in a very strong wind. While sailing the Chesapeake bay a little while ago in 25 knot winds gusting to almost 35 knots I decided that I had too much head sail out even though it was already partially rolled in. Rather then fight with a flogging sail, after the sheet is let loose, I turned to boat so that the wind was on my stern (about 120 degrees) which means that the boat is moving with the wind, more or less, and so there is less force on the head sail with less flogging. Plus it pushes the sail away from the boat. All this makes it much easier to adjust the head sail furled in big winds by hand without the use of a winch. Then I turn the boat back onto my original course and sheet in the head sail.

 

[Loren Beach]

Rather then fight with a flogging sail, after the sheet is let loose, I turned to boat so that the wind was on my stern (about 120 degrees) which means that the boat is moving with the wind, more or less, and so there is less force on the head sail with less flogging. Plus it pushes the sail away from the boat. All this makes it much easier to adjust the head sail furled in big winds by hand without the use of a winch. Then I turn the boat back onto my original course and sheet in the head sail.

Excellent Advice! A few years ago I labored to roll in a flapping small jib, still holding course to windward. Furler jammed and by the time we got the sail in, it was damaged and needed repair. In the aftermath I also replaced the old Harken with a new Mk 4.
I could have - maybe - got another year out of the furler and never harmed the jib at all IF I had done what Bob suggests.

 

[Christian Williams]

Saverio, the cam block is a Harken product, probably

57mm Block — Swivel, Cam Cleat

Low-friction Carbo Air blocks are lightweight, strong, reliable—and affordable. Companions to our popular Harken Big Boat blocks, these small, compact blocks have very high working loads for safe, easy trimming.

www.harken.com

It attaches to the stanchion with

Stanchion mount base MWL 159 kg (061)

 

[Saverio]

Thanks Cristian

 

[G Kiba]

I am also a big fan of the technique mentioned by Bolo. Which I describe as "sail down wind and shadow the jib with the main". This makes rolling up easy. Especially if you are already sailing somewhat downwind! Why turn into the wind to roll up? Of course you do have to turn to drop the main; but I have had many times where rolling the jib early makes sense.

Regarding the posted topic... Are your jib sheets too large for your winches (slipping)? Are you wrapping at least 3 time around (also slipping)? If you have self tailing winches that were recently serviced, check if the self tailing mechanism was not tightened enough or came loose. I had that happen and it was near impossible to sheet in the jib like you described.

 

[Christian Williams]

We should be able to furl to reef the headsail without changing course.

Bearing off may be fine on a summer's day, but not clawing off a lee shore or many other instances. Technique is worth developing.

 

[LameBMX]

We should be able to furl the headsail without changing course.

I think the point is, going into irons made it harder to furl. When the headsail has some wind in it, the force is lined up to furl correctly. when in irons, i think, there is more tension at the top of the furler extrusion, basically twisting the extrusion to wrap the top, with the bottom just bulking up and along for the ride. I had similar messing with my south coast in the driveway with no wind. had to ask my then partner to hold the headsail sheets with some tension, then it furled really easy.

 

[Mr. Scarlett]

I learned that if I don't keep some tension on the furling line for the last three wraps, an override can occur inside the drum.

 

[Christian Williams]

The genoa must be relieved of all pressure before furling. In heavy air that means it flaps like crazy, and if it isn't flapping like crazy you can't furl it in.

True that in light air or calm, some tension is required on the sheet to get a good roll-up--and more important, so the line wraps in the drum with constant tension. .

 

[Bolo]

Excellent Advice! A few years ago I labored to roll in a flapping small jib, still holding course to windward. Furler jammed and by the time we got the sail in, it was damaged and needed repair. In the aftermath I also replaced the old Harken with a new Mk 4.
I could have - maybe - got another year out of the furler and never harmed the jib at all IF I had done what Bob suggests.

The other advantage of putting the wind on the stern is that the main can also help in cause a bit of a wind shadow onto the head sail. I realize that there are times that doing this maneuver isn't possible or recommended, like being to close to a lee shore as Christian mentioned, but if the conditions are right and most of the time they are, then why stress the sail (and crew) with a flogging head sail? There have been times when I had no choice but to furl in the head sail while keeping the wind forward of the beam where a wildly flogging sail is unavoidable but with enough sailing room and a desire to keep the stresses down this technique has never let me down especially when single handing.

This says it all better then my description:

 

[Christian Williams]

I've just gotta say that turning the boat downwind so the genoa is blanketed by the mainsail is unnecessary to furl a foresail, and therefore not good technique, especially shorthanded, where somebody has to steer to boat through the course alteration.

 

[Bepi]

Thank you, everyone, for your responses. In the end I see that it comes down to technique, training, and not falling prey to the "Sound and the Fury".

 

[Alan Gomes]

What I have found works well, at the suggestion of my sailmaker, is to bring the boat through a slow-ish tack and furl the sail as the boat passes through being in irons. My Harken requires no winch and I can get the sail rolled up easily in the time I've got as I pass through the tack. Never tried this on a larger boat with a monster masthead genoa, so YMMV.

Truth be told, in light to even moderate breezes, I don't even resort to this. The one thing I always do is to relieve the tension on the sheet, which means that the sail might flog momentarily. But my furler appears to work as designed, and I can get it rolled up so quickly, with no winch, so that any flogging is minimal. But I mention the tacking technique above because it does work as my sailmaker suggested, and any flogging of the sail is little different from what I'd see on a normal tack anyway.