Wilcox Headmate Replacement

[Pat O'Connell]

Respected Owners
WC Headmates are no longer available and my Headmate seems to need a rebuild. We can pump into the holding tank but can't pump from the ocean into the bowl. Thinking about a new head if I can find one that fits the footprint. The hose into the tank does not have any more length available. Don't like messing with the hose into the tank as the tank connection is very old. The sw intake hose is fine.
Rebuild would be a option. The kits are relatively expensive and I would have to extract the head to have the room to rebuild. WC has lasted about (10) years this would be our second head replacment.
Any suggestions for a new head that would be a easy hookup?
Thanks
Pat
1981 E28+ Universal 5411

 

[Rocinante33]

Raritan makes good heads. This one advertises "matching bolt patterns to other manual heads", but the overall size may be too large.

http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|51|2234284|2234286&id=3213301

Otherwise, try this one. It may be smaller;

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|51|2234284|2234286&id=2598940

 

[Rocinante33]

Btw, I would want to replace that hose if I were doing the job, which I will one day.

 

[Pat O'Connell]

Hi Keith
Thanks for the counsel. I have no experience other than the Headmate. Probably a good idea on the hose too. I'll avoid replacing the hose if I can but we all know how that goes. Those WC sure were cheap. I think I paid about $100 for the last one. The rebuild kits were almost as expensive.
Best Regards
Pat
1981 E28+Chips

 

[Loren Beach]

Getting a "head" in life

From the "new" descriptor for the Raritan head model in the link, it looks like they might be phasing in a replacement for their PH2.
If you have an Ericson with something other than a Raritan PH2, head, it might have been replaced by a prior owner or perhaps was a custom request by the initial purchaser. Groco also had a very good reputation, FWIW.

The venerable PH2 was the (expensive) OEM head for 80's Ericson's and Olson's. It is a top quality product.

One caveat however, no matter which brand and model you replace, there is a high probability that the footprint will be different, and even if it were the same model the base holes will be off by enough fractions of an inch to require you to epoxy in at least one or two the original lag bolt holes and re-drill. I went through this a number of seasons ago when replacing the original PH2 in our '88 boat.

When you do finally re-drive those lags, be sure to put a little sealant around each one. You do not want water from from the head area rotting the plywood substrate under that part of the frp molding.

As for pulling new hoses in while you have more room to work in the head area, "what Keith said!"


Loren

 

[Pat O'Connell]

Hi Keith Hi Loren
Thanks sounds like Raritan is the way to go. We have been lucky to have only two headmates in 35 years. No Rebuilds but probably half a dozen joker valves. Spoke with mooring neighbor today who changed to a Groco from the Headmate and he has had to rebuild the Groco several times. I was not thinking about the hose replacement clearly. With the head "out" it will be a easier fix. Watched a mechanic maybe (20) years ago pounding a head hose on the dock. The hose was 60% congested with hard calcium deposit. It reminded me of pictures I have seen of "hardening of the arteries."
Thanks
Pat
1981 E28+ Chips Univarsal 5411

 

[KanH]

just did this

I highly recommend replacing your waste hoses if you areswapping out your head. It is a smellyjob but done right it shouldn’t be too bad. I was shocked by the condition of the hoses and feel better now that itis done. I also changed out the air venthose which was surprisingly gunked up more that I would have imagined. FWIW, due to the limited space in my 30+ Ireplaced my Wilcox Headmate with a Jabsco model. The Raritan foot print would have been over bulky. <o></o>

 

[Frank Langer]

Hi Kan,
I am considering replacing head hoses on our E30+ as they are about 15 years old though they don't smell yet. But it seems impossible to get at them well enough to get them out and new ones installed, especially as they seem to be really hard to put on the fittings. Can you please describe how you did this on your E30+?
Thanks,
Frank

 

[TakeFive]

Head hoses, if they aint broke them don't touch em.

I replaced the original hoses this spring. Not a fun job. Ericson used 1/4 thick rubber with wire reinforcement. Slow going in inaccessible places with a utility knife, wire cutters, and screwdrive. Skin peel on my arms was an added benefit at no charge. Seriously overdesigned system. Hoses were capable of being used to cool high temp high pressure turbine generators. The two Y valves and the octopus system of hoses required a chart to make sure the valves were set in the right position.
New sanitary hoses were a complete pain. I coated inside of hoses with elec. dielectric grease (all I had on board) and got lucky with a couple of fittings. The rest required careful use of heat gun. Use low heat and try to fit hose often. If you overheat hose turns to spaghetti and then it will never go on.
I flushed holding tank a number of times ending up with an inch of clear water in the bottom. I put alum. baking pans under hoses to be removed. Contractor trash bags under those. Glad I did because one low hose was still filled with black sewage. Kept a spray bottle of bleach handy.
Should be good for another 30 years.

 

[KanH]

Hi Kan,
I am considering replacing head hoses on our E30+ as they are about 15 years old though they don't smell yet. But it seems impossible to get at them well enough to get them out and new ones installed, especially as they seem to be really hard to put on the fittings. Can you please describe how you did this on your E30+?
Thanks,
Frank

The key for me was to cut an inspection port to the right of themanual discharge pump and below the electrical outlet. That allowed me access not only to thatportion of the system but also better ability to refeed the new hoses. Otherwise I was able to reach up through themedicine cabinet to get to the deck fitting for the pump out and hull fittingfor the air hose. I’m not sure I wouldhave been able to do the job otherwise. <o></o>
Good luck. As othershave said, a pain to do but worth it.<o></o>

 

[bgary]

The rebuild kits were almost as expensive.

Slight thread-drift....

The head in my 32-III seems to be in need of attention. Odd noises when pumping, seems to be taking in air when it should be pushing water.

I bought one of the rebuild kits (~$75 from downwind marine), any tips? I figure if I replace some/all of the gaskets and the gurgling goes away, I've bought myself some time. And if not, I start reading the rest of this thread.

Any tips I should keep in mind as I do the rebuild?

 

[Glyn Judson]

W/C Headmate rebuild.

Dear friend, I probably did the same thing as you are about to do with a friends Headmate recently except I ended p not using any new parts save a choker valve. Her pump would discharge a full bowl to the hiding tank but wouldn't draw in raw water, so I tore the pump body apart with the intention of inspecting for damage and eventual replacement with a rebuild kit but to my amazement, after getting it all apart, i could find nothing wrong, worn or damaged. My ultimate success that day was in bathing all the old parts (didn't need to buy a new parts kit) including the plastic pump body in a 50/50 mix of muriatic acid and fresh water, thereby ridding everything of scale, then followed by a thorough fresh water rinse so that everything would run clean and smoothly again. With fingers crossed, I reassembled all the parts and now it works like new. I did replace the choker valve with a new W/C one I had on hand. These are pretty simply designed and efficient heads and with a little periodic maintenance, i see no reason that they should't last the life of our boats. Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey CA

 

[Shelman]

Don't lick your fingers.

Its not all that bad really... (as long as you flush first) Take pictures during disassembly so you don't forget which way the bits and pieces face and how it all goes back in.

 

[bgary]

Don't lick your fingers.

Good tip. thanks for that! ;-)

 

[Pat O'Connell]

Headmate

Hi Glyn
You are our hero (again.) I still have not repaired or replaced the Headmate. The Folgers plastic coffee can and a little fresh water have been soo convenient and my on the mooring nap time has been more important :<{))) . I keep thinking that there has got to be something that I can pump thru the Headmate to get it going (right.)
Best Regards
Pat O'Connell
1981 Ericson E28+ Universal 5411

 

[bgary]

headmate (1460) manual

BTW, if anyone is looking for diagram or part numbers, can find them here:

 

[Pat O'Connell]

Hi Respected Owners
Thanks for all your counsel on this! Spoke with pump designer engineer and he said to try a flush with white vinegar. Nothing to lose so I will and it should not deter from my naps (much).
Engineer also referred me to Don Caseys epistle on marine toilets. I searched for

Marine toilet maintenance by Don Casey

and found the good Boats US Article. I'll try a little diluted acid if the vinegar does not work. Then probably go for a replacement if there is nojoy...
Best Regards
Pat O'Connell
1981 E28+ Chips Universal 5411 (WC Headmate)

 

[sailinggreg]

Hi All,

I realize this message stream is years old but thought I'd try putting my questions here before starting a new post. There's some real head experts in this stream, I'd appreciate any advice.

We have a Wilcox-Crittenden Head-Mate head on our 1980 Ericsson 30+. Starting this fall I've noticed that after pumping the head it re-fills a little, about less than an inch in the bowl.

From my research it seems it probably just needs the joker valve replaced(?). In the messages above and elsewhere, I also read that for not much more money and effort I should install a pump rehabilitation kit. But I also read that because Wilcox-Crittenden sold this line of business and these heads were discontinued, the parts (joker valves or rehab kits) are long ago not available. So maybe I need to buy a conversion kit which, hopefully, will allow me to use the same bowl, and not have to drill new holes(?).

Can anyone confirm:

1/ my diagnosis, that it probably just needs a new joker valve? Should other brands of joker valves fit my head?

2/ if parts for a retrofit of the pump are available, or other recommendations?

Fyi, we use the head very little as we mostly day sail. Only "maintenance" I've done on the head is adding vinegar and then pumping it out half a pump at a time, which I've read helps dissolve calcium deposits. Until this back filling issue, the head has worked fine and smells fine.

Thanks!

Greg

 

[Christian Williams]

Yes, change the joker valve. Probably just that, and it's routine maintenance anyhow. .

Apparently Raritan fits.

 

[Frank Langer]

Greg, we had your same toilet in our 1984 E30+ when we bought our boat in 2006. At that time it was already hard to get parts, so we decided to replace it with a compact Jabsco, and never regretted it, even though they sometimes get less positive reviews.
Ours was easy to install and has worked well without any problems, just normal maintenance, and parts are readily available.
If you decide to keep your current toilet, replacing the joker valve is a reasonable place to start, as Christian suggests.
Frank