White Smoke of Death?

[Dan Hayes]

Coming back from Catalina this last Sunday, we were motoring for an hour or so until the wind came up, and we shut down our Universal diesel. We had motored to the island on Friday night, and the engine performed flawlessly.

When the wind completely died a little while later, and we fired the engine back up.

I looked back a few minutes later, and noticed clouds of white smoke coming from the exhaust. The engine water pump was pumping water, but there was a large amount of white smoke (or steam) along with the water (or exhaust). The temperature was elevated, too - about 160 degrees instead of our usual steady 135 degrees - which normally takes up to a half hour to obtain.

I immediately shut down the engine. We managed to sail in, to within about 100 feet from the slip, at which time we dropped the sails, re-started the engine (no smoke) and motored into the slip. I shut down the engine again.

I checked the oil, and there were no bubbles, evidence of water, milkiness, nothing - just plain black diesel oil. I haven't looked at the cooling system yet - it was dark by the time we made it in, and besides - I wouldn't know what to look for anyway.

My first thought was - head gasket. White smoke in the gasoline engines I have owned usually meant a blown head gasket... but, being a neophyte diesel boater, I am at a loss here. I thought I'd look to my fellow Ericson owners to see if anyone could come up with some possibilities, prior to calling in the Very Expensive Diesel Mechanics we have around here, most of whom seem to have previous employment as Washington lobbyists, Enron accountants or Michael Milken bond traders...

Any ideas, you guys?

The trip to Catalina was otherwise uneventful, probably the most relaxing and picturesque weekend I have had in years. I hope to get some photos posted to share this week.

Thanks all,

Dan Hayes

 

[chaco]

Check your cooling water intake. Seaweed will clog your cooling water
grate and cause temporary elevated engine running temps.
Its not a matter of if seaweed causes problems.... its when.
Seaweed is forever clogging my little 4HP eggbeater cooling intake.
Most of the SEADOGS also have seaweed stories.

Happy Diving /) /)

 

[Graham Cole]

my universal diesel did the same thing then quit due to excessive water in the racor filter ( bad fuel) I think the engine was trying to run on water! lotsa white smoke but fine after a new filter and tank clean.

 

[Jeff Asbury]

Hi Dan,

I know you have a Universal but this info may help with your trouble shooting. It is from Yanmarhelp.com. Some good things to check here if it keeps up. Good Luck, Jeff

Q: Exhaust bellows large amounts of white steam?

A: A salt water cooled engine operates at about 55degC / 130degF. This means it is quite easy to keep your hand on the cylinder block while the engine is running. If the temp goes over this the salt will precipitate out of the water and restrict the water galleries at an unacceptably fast rate. Because of this the alarm operates at 62degC / 144degF. The steam from your exhaust indicates that the water flow thru the engine may be too low.*Check the following:*i) That there are no restrictions in the intake from the sea cock to the pump. You must dismantle everything if you haven't already and look inside or poke something thru that will remove jellyfish, small leaves, barnacles, etc.*ii) The hole in the thru-hull fitting sometimes gets smaller and smaller with each successive coat of antifouling. Go for a swim and check the hole is the right size. Don't rely on blowing through the system as it has to be very blocked up to provide any resistance to your huff.*iii) Where the water supply enters the cylinder block it splits and goes up to the thermostat bypass. When the thermostat is closed there is no significant flow through the block and head. When the thermostat opens it allows water to flow through the block, head and exhaust manifold to join the exhaust gas at the mixing elbow, and at the same time cuts off the bypass water flow. If the steam is intermittent the block, head or exhaust manifold galleries are restricted as the steam appears when the thermostat opens wide. I have not had any experience with Salt Away so I don't know if it works well or not. The white stuff you can see when you replace the anodes is a combination of extinct anodes and salt.*iv) On some model engines the thermostat cover can be installed in reverse. Check to see if it is the right way round, the word 'in' is usually embossed on the end nearest the front of the engine.*v) Check the raw water pump. You may find the wear is unacceptable and an overhaul is necessary. Check the cam, the cover plate and the inside face where the impeller runs and re-surface or replace if there are*any grooves. Replace the impeller.*vi The exhaust manifold should be removed, dismantled and the water galleries cleaned. You have already cleaned the gas side and replaced the mixing elbow. It is possible that the manifold may need replacing at this age.*vii) The worst scenario is a cracked cylinder head leaking water straight into the cylinder while running. If you do things in the order laid out above they go from the more probable and the least expensive to the least probable and most expensive.

 

[jkm]

Dan
Don't forget to post those pictures.
I try to get over to Two Harbors once a month

John

 

[Emerald]

Hi,

in case you are battling a clog, check out the first item, "Emergency Clearing of Clogged Water Inlet for the Engine"on my "Projects" page - it's not a link like my other stuff, but all there on the first page:

http://home.comcast.net/~independence31/projects.html

In short, used Avon's bellows pump to clear an exterior strainer (which has since been replaced by interior Groco strainer)


-David
Independence 31
Emerald

 

[hodo]

The first thing to do is determine whether it is steam or smoke. the abnormal heat could be caused by an exhaust restriction, which could give you either smoke or steam. White smoke is usually caused by unburned fuel. This can happen for a variety of reasons, including bad fuel. Does it smoke on startup, at idle, just under power? What motor do you have? If you have a way of checking your exhaust temp, maybe with one of those infra-red guns, it may help as you can pick up at what point the temp might change. I checked mine after I repaired it to get a baseline for future comparisons. Restricted intake will also cause white smoke. You may want to check the orifice where the water mixes with the exhaust. Ive seen those plug up on a number of Universals. Let us know what you find. Good Luck, Harold

 

[Dan Hayes]

White smoke of death...

I have a Universal Model 5411, an 11 horsepower model, made by Kubota. It was originally set up to be a raw water cooled engine. But, there was an option to install fresh water cooling, probably to allow for a hot water heater. Because it was originally a raw water cooled engine, it normally runs at 135 degrees - apparently salt precipitates at 144 degrees (according to some post I found today... how these guys know all this stuff is beyond me!) It takes forever to reach that temp - you pretty much have to go full throttle for awhile to get there.

I'm thinking we hit some kelp - we had gone through a patch of it when we were idling the motor and checking on the sails. The good news is, if we haven't got a case of a blown head gasket, the temp never reached over 155 -160 degrees, so we didn't fry the engine. I just plain don't know if we got white smoke or steam - there was quite a bit of it, so I'm thinking it was steam.

On a recent foray to Minnie's, the chandlery of choice for us So Cal Good Old Boat Owners, I saw several intake water strainers. Looks like you install them between the seacock and the raw water pump. Do you guys use these? Sure looks like a useful thing to have - you could shut off the seacock, clean the filter, and off you go. Of course, they could clog quite a bit in dirty water, but hey, I wouldn't want that stuff in my cooling system anyway.

I have a Sherwood water pump - I think I'll have the impeller changed just in case, or learn to do it myself.

I don't think we had a fuel problem - I recently had the fuel tank cleaned, the fuel polished, and the filters changed.

I will check the cooling system for leaks. Do you just pop the cap off the heat exchanger (it's a radiator cap on mine) and then fill it up with coolant and water? Any posts on that procedure?

Thanks, all. What a great resource, having all these knowledgeable people to put questions to...

-dh

 

[Emerald]

Hi,

I have installed several of the interior strainers like the Groco you can find here:

http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/4,10542.htm


and like them very much. As I mentioned in a reply above, I had a completely clogged exterior strainer on Emerald. It was so bad I could actually remove the water intake from the thru-hull, open the fitting, and not get water coming in! Tried poking it clear with heavy wire, long round metal objects etc., and got nowhere, and then blew it clear with the bellows pump from the Avon as I decsribe on my projects page (for easy reference, here: http://home.comcast.net/~independence31/projects.html )

So, after the above experience, I was pretty convinced I didn't want an external strainer, removed it, increased the thru-hull from the original 1/2 inch to 3/4 inch, put on a proper flanged seacock, installed the Groco, and life is much happier. I end up cleaning the Groco a couple times a season, and it's been easy. Also, you can get some pretty cheap all plastic strainers for around 15 bucks. I would avoid them - having held both in my hands, there is no comparison as to what I want to risk sinking the boat over.


-David
Independence 31
Emerald

 

[chaco]

Recommend using both external grate and internal strainer.
The external grate will keep you from sucking something BIG in to
your plumbing that will COMPLETELY clog your hoses.
Know where the intake grate is located on your hull.
Inlist the help of your crew in an emergency.
Pass a line under the hull from port and starboard and scrub
the grate clean of debris from the deck.
Do a little diving back at the slip and clean the grate.
Next time you are on the hard ream all the intakes and outlets
with wire brush pipe cleaners. The pipe cleaners are available at
your local plumbing supplier. They are used for cleaning drains.
Check ALL your hoses for blockage and replace bad ones.
Head outlets and hoses will get clogged by coral type critters
tagging along for a free meal.

Happy Plumbing /) /)

 

[chuckshipp]

Hay Dan;
Today just finished removing and cleaning my exaust manifold for the second time, First time radiator shop boiled it out, second time I boiled it out with Muratic acid, about three times. I have a 11 HP universal salt water cooled. I don't think the raditor shop got all the passages cleaned out, there are some that I used a coat hanger on, down at the bottom of the manifold. My engine would overheat, and the white smoke would come out. If it is the manifold stopped up, you can disconnect the crossover from the engine, and try to run fresh water or air thru it, will tell you if it is the manifold.
I have rigged up a water hose connection between the thru hull, and the water pump so I can run, or pull fresh water thru the engine. Tried to clean with white vinigar, and water and ate up my seals, got water in the engine.(another story)
Chuck

 

[hodo]

Hi Dan, to pressure check your system, make sure it is cool, remove the cap, notice the pressure rating of the cap, top off with a 50/50/mix of coolant and water, use a automotive type pressure checker, which is a hand pump with a guage. It will screw onto the fill neck like the cap. Pump it up to the cap rated pressure,[assuming it is the correct cap],and see if the pressure drops. If it does look for the green stuff. By the way, don't mix the orange or pink coolant with the green. It will gel up, and then the fun begins. I think the cap should be 7 psi, but check your manual. While you are at it, pressure check the cap with the adapter that comes with the pump. It should relieve at the rated psi. I have found the problems are usually from the heat exchanger on out through the exhaust. If you have access to a infra red temp. gun, You should be able to pin point where the heat starts to become a problem. If you have a head gasket leak into the cylinder, you should be able to smell anti freeze when it runs. also, the oil will turn a milky color. If you find the coolant level up when you remove the cap, I would guess it is an water exit problem, probably at the point where the water mixes with the exhaust. If it is smoke,that is white, that is a whole different set of possibilities. I think the temp may be too low if you have a closed system. Diesels run on heat, so warmer is better up to a point. I would think 160 degrees would be about right for the thermostat. Well, this opinion and some cash might buy you a cup of coffee, Good Luck Dan, let us know what you find. Harold

 

[Dan Hayes]

More on the White Smoke of Death !

Thanks for all the info - this site is like a treasure trove for Ericson owners! Those of us who are not mechanically inclined, or who are new to larger boat ownership, really appreciate all the knowledge you guys have. Thanks very much for the info.

I am on the way to the auto parts store to buy a pressure tester, and some brass pipe cleaners, and feel a lot more positive, as I don't think I have to contemplate a head gasket problem - at least yet.

I'll fill you in as soon after my next trip to the boat this weekend.

 

[SeaDog]

Dan,
Be sure to check your fuel filter. I had white smoke and elevated temperature shortly after purchasing Uff Da... thought that I had blown the engine. It turned out to be crappy fuel.

Kirby

 

[Dan Hayes]

Whew!

Well, the White Smoke Of Death turned out to be just steam - this time, anyway. Turned out I had sucked up a nice bouquet of frilly marine grass, which I was able to get out of the intake hose, but not the thru hull. After digging around, I got the hose clear and a small amount of water was coming through, so I went ahead and started the engine. It had been three weeks, and I couldn't afford to let it sit longer waiting for the bottom cleaning diver... who was already a week late (I'll be out this week - promise!").


After starting the engine, the flow was restricted for a couple minutes, then came gushing out like normal. So, whatever was living in my thru hull is now living in my heat exchanger, I'm sure. I have a water intake strainer ordered, and that goes in next weekend. While I'm at it, I am going to replace the hoses, and start going over the cooling system.

The engine otherwise purrs like a kitten, no water in the oil, and so looks like we're good for now.

Thanks for all the great info, I appreciate all you guys as a resource.

-Dan Hayes

PS - Next thread - They Said It Was A Dripless Shaft Bearing - But You Know How They Lie!