Which Winch??

[Lawrence B. Lee]

My 32-200 has four winches on the the cabin roof. The two on the starboard side are #10 Barlows. On the port we have a #10 Barlow and behind it a #18. The jib halyard runs to the #18. The main halyard comes out of the mast on the starboard side and runs back to the aft #10. We usually raise the main by one of us pulling the halyard directly out of the mast while the other tails from the cockpit. This it not difficult until the final 10% of pull or anytime the boat is pounding in the surf below. It is very hard to raise the main directly from the cockpit. Thus, I wondered why we weren't using the #18 mentioned above to assist us. So my question to those of you with four winch assortments as described above. Do you run the main halyard to the #18 on the port side (or whichever side it is located on) or to the #10 on the starboard? I think pulling the main halyard up on the #18 would make my life easier once I figured out how to switch main and jib halyards from port to starboard inside the mast. I realize there may be personal preferences involved here but I am curious since as I approach the golden years I am looking to make things easier for me and admiral. Who uses the #18 for the main halyard?


Larry Lee
Annabel Lee
Ericson 32-200
Savannah, GA

 

[Loren Beach]

I wonder what the actual "power ratio" is for those winch models of yours?

Our boat came with one Lewmar 30ST on each side of the house top. There are three clutch stoppers on one side and four on the other. From experience I can tell you that the 30 is easily enough to raise the main, but a tad marginal for raising an adult up the mast...
(Friends who have cranked me up there once are not so eager to do so again!)


If I had my "druthers" I'd change out one of those for a size 40 just for running a person up the spar on the bosun's chair.

Loren

 

[Christian Williams]

It is very hard to raise the main directly from the cockpit.

I would say that you ought to be able to raise the main hand over hand, even from the cockpit, until the last few feet or inches. If it's necessary to winch it all the way up, I'd suggest a look at the track, slugs, sheaves, blocks and so on. Your description of hauling the halyard at the mast is one reason I'm changing to a mast winch and cleat and eliminating the cockpit halyard setup..

The sail really ought to go up and down easily. Safety in a squall, for reefing, and so on.

(By the way, if you have a wire halyard, check the deck block it runs through. On many boats that's the only sheave that's aluminum--the others are designed only for rope)

 

[toddster]

I have a couple of cabin-top winches that are optionally for running halyards to the cockpit. Normally it is much easier to use the winches on the mast. Or to just pull the halyard without a winch. I think the reason is that the lines do not lead fairly. There is some component missing, like a deck organizer. Or maybe there were once snatch blocks lashed to the hand rails or something. Or the turning blocks at the base of the mast need to be wedged up to a different angle - or replaced with swivel blocks.

My boat was once rigged by a gung-ho racer, (several owners ago) so I think it must have worked smoothly at one time... The last couple of owners didn't really know what they were doing. Trying to figure it out is like doing boat archaeology.

 

[Lawrence B. Lee]

Mystery

Thanks everyone for your replies. I can't figure it out. It's almost easy to get the sail up at the mast but once the halyard goes through the block at the base of the mast and heads back to the cockpit things get harder. Maybe I need a bigger block if not a winch. I checked and the line does run true through the blocks and back to the cockpit. A winch on the mast sounds tempting but I'm trying to stay away from the mast when things gets rough. I'm just going to have to keep fiddling and tweak some things. Thanks again.

Larry

 

[Rick R.]

Winch

Hi Larry! Good to see you here again!

We use the smaller inside winch on the starboard side to raise the main. Were having trouble with the new sail going up and down easily. There are black Teflon slides at each batten and the headboard that seem to get jammed. I want to be able to drop the sail with no problem in a danger situation.

 

[Christian Williams]

Larry certainly brought up a frequent issue with 80's boats. Some folks here have recommended jamming a piece of soap in the track before hoisting, for lube. Old timer passagemakers often had a line attached to the headboard, or the highest tack reefing cringle, to help pull a sail down when things went wrong.

I'm still looking for the right stuff to lube the track, something that won't attract dirt and the fallout of burned jet fuel under LAX.

Our best-known local rigger always suggests Strong Track, the aftermarket luff slide system at $30 a foot or so. Harken makes one too.

I see folks lowering their main with Strong Track. The sail comes down like a falling piano.

 

[MarcusJtown]

I'm just going to toss this out there, but make sure all of your sail controls are loose. When I have a hard time with the main, it's usually because I left the sheet, or the vang, or cunningham, or outhaul on. Goes up fine until the last 1/3rd. Happens to me about once every 3rd sail. I start cranking on the winch, and then go "DUH!" and let the vang off.

 

[ref_123]

Our sail maker recommended SailKote for lubing the track. She also put Teflon slides on a new main. The combination kind of works... When I finally get up the mast with Dremmel and polish a couple of uneven/corroded spots where sail sticks on the way down it should get even better.

Buttcars from Harken work like a charm both up and down - saw it on quite a few boats. The setup is not a huge purchase, but a bit expensive. One of those "would be nice" items - like StackPack, SSB, freezer, or a new traveler. Like, yeah, would be nice, but we can surely live without it. Or the old one is working OK-ish.

May be when I grow older and richer...

Regards,
Stan

 

[Christian Williams]

I came upon this blog, about mast track issues and full length battens, while doing some research on this topic:

http://www.3sheets.us/2011/12/

A Kenyon mast track was damaged by incorrect slides. The answer was a Fast Track system.

 

[toddster]

I looked real hard at that before I ordered the new main. *sigh* In the end, I decided that I could afford either the track OR the sail. Maybe next time.

 

[Rick R.]

I want one.....

The Tides Marine Sail Track and Slide System. http://www.sailcare.com/sail-track-system.shtml. At $27 per foot I will need to lobby the Admiral for another $972!

 

[Mindscape]

Raising the main

The Tides system is great. Have used it on a friends boat.

The original blocks and turning blocks on the our boat were part of the issue on a hard to raise main. The orignial blocks are not ball bearing blocks so I replaced all of the blocks at the base of the mast and the turning blocks on the deck with ball bearing blocks and it made a big difference. I also think (it was a while ago) that the angle on the halyard from the block at the base of the mast to the turning block caused some friction. I moved the blocks around and and played with the lead until it seemed right.
Before the changes I could rasie the main pretty easily at the mast with no issues. I then tried it running the halyard thru the block at the base and just raising it from there, it got a little harder but not too bad. Then I ran the halyard from the block, thru the turning block and could immediatly tell the difference. Finally I ran the halyard from the mast base block, thru the turning block and then thru the clutch on the cabin top and it got even harder. I replaced the orignal clutchs with lewmars (a great upgrade), and the blocks and sheaves as I mentioned. I now routinely raise the main from the cockpit with no issues. I think adding a track system would make it even easier. At the start of every season i use an aresol dry lube on the slides and on a small rag that I drag up and down the track with the halyard and a temporary downhaul. As mentioned in another post the other side is making sure the main comes down easily and mine will come down into the lazy jacks almost all the way when I release the clutch holding the halyard.

 

[Rick R.]

The Tides system is great. Have used it on a friends boat.

The original blocks and turning blocks on the our boat were part of the issue on a hard to raise main. The orignial blocks are not ball bearing blocks so I replaced all of the blocks at the base of the mast and the turning blocks on the deck with ball bearing blocks and it made a big difference. I also think (it was a while ago) that the angle on the halyard from the block at the base of the mast to the turning block caused some friction. I moved the blocks around and and played with the lead until it seemed right.
Before the changes I could rasie the main pretty easily at the mast with no issues. I then tried it running the halyard thru the block at the base and just raising it from there, it got a little harder but not too bad. Then I ran the halyard from the block, thru the turning block and could immediatly tell the difference. Finally I ran the halyard from the mast base block, thru the turning block and then thru the clutch on the cabin top and it got even harder. I replaced the orignal clutchs with lewmars (a great upgrade), and the blocks and sheaves as I mentioned. I now routinely raise the main from the cockpit with no issues. I think adding a track system would make it even easier. At the start of every season i use an aresol dry lube on the slides and on a small rag that I drag up and down the track with the halyard and a temporary downhaul. As mentioned in another post the other side is making sure the main comes down easily and mine will come down into the lazy jacks almost all the way when I release the clutch holding the halyard.

Thanks Frank! Maybe there's hope without spending $900 on the 36' of Strong Track. My sail maker called me today and said he changed out my slides at the battens and it's made a big difference. I wont get back to my boat to check till next week to check.

I've already called around looking for the best price on the ST system and it seems Bacon has a better price than Tides Marine by over $1 per foot.
Rick

 

[Rocinante33]

Buttcars from Harken work like a charm both up and down - saw it on quite a few boats.
Regards,
Stan

Battcars work well, too!


But seriously, I need to take a loose sail slug every year and wrap a small swatch of cloth around it, saturate the cloth in soapy water, then run it up and down the track several times. Don't forget to tie a downhaul to the sail slug. Then repeat (several times) with clear water to rinse using a fresh piece of cloth. Finally, again with a fresh cloth, soak int in Mc Lube and run it up and down multiple time. It makes a big difference.