Which Ericson?

[Want2GoSail]

Hi All,
I'm new to this group and sailing in general. I'm looking to purchase my first sailboat and would appreciate some guidance from some experienced sailors. I'm looking for a vessel that has good light wind performance for learning to sail around the islands of BC and Washington and eventually progressing to sailing offshore. I have my eye on a couple of Ericsons one being a 1981 Ericson 36 RH and the other being a Bruce King designed 1978 Ericson 34x. I believe that both of these options are capable of going offshore but does one have an advantage other than size over the other in sailing characteristics or abilities? Thanks in advance.

 

[Loren Beach]

Hi All,
I'm new to this group and sailing in general. I'm looking to purchase my first sailboat and would appreciate some guidance from some experienced sailors. I'm looking for a vessel that has good light wind performance for learning to sail around the islands of BC and Washington and eventually progressing to sailing offshore. I have my eye on a couple of Ericsons one being a 1981 Ericson 36 RH and the other being a Bruce King designed 1978 Ericson 34x. I believe that both of these options are capable of going offshore but does one have an advantage other than size over the other in sailing characteristics or abilities? Thanks in advance.

Interesting choices. If you "have your eye" on these two, my guess is that both are available to you in your local waters. There are quite a few other Ericson-constructed boats in that size range, FWIW.
Do you have some prior sailing experience? Crewing? Chartering? I ask because it's tricky to really know what will meet your needs if you lack experience under way. Will you be mainly be single-handing? Sailing with a partner? Kids or pets included?

One take away from your two models mentioned is that you DO have some preference for a fast boat with off shore capabilities, and that you are aware of the benefits of an "off shore interior layout" as opposed to a craft mean't for gracious dockside living. (Sorry to come across as sarcastic, but one nice feature of most all of the Ericson's (and my Olson 34) is that the interior is well-designed for living under way and under sail. i.e. the sleeping areas, galley layout, and head areas are designed to be useful in the ocean.

Unfortunately I have no sailing time on either of those two models, but have been aboard both of them for a visit. The Ron Holland-designed E-36 would especially interest me, as I have a lot sailing time aboard it's smaller sister ship, the E-33.

If you have a broker link or other 'for sale' link to share with us, please do so.
You do not mention the Ericson 35-2, but there were some of those at the Rendezvous @ Maple Bay last summer. Great boats.


Regards,
Loren

 

[toddster]

Well, other issues include "where do you plan to keep it?" and "How large is your crew?" 30-feet seems to be the magic number for available and affordable marina slips. Granted, there are probably a lot more choices in BC. But 30 feet is also a pretty sizable boat for a beginner (well, one I know) to handle by himself. I found that 16 feet was about the right amount of trouble for my first boat.

 

[Want2GoSail]

I have very limited experience sailing and yes indeed these two boats are available in my area and I'm going to see them next week. I have done a fair bit of research over the last few years as to what I want in a boat and the RH 36 seems to fit my bill pretty well. I'm just looking for some confirmation perhaps. I have a marina just down the road and also have the option of mooring it out on the harbour in front of my condo but I'll worry about that closer to boat time. I also have a couple of heavier boats in my sights but I think as long as the 36 doesn't hold any ugly surprises it'll be tough to convince me away from it.

 

[Loren Beach]

E-36rh

I have very limited experience sailing and yes indeed these two boats are available in my area and I'm going to see them next week. I have done a fair bit of research over the last few years as to what I want in a boat and the RH 36 seems to fit my bill pretty well. I'm just looking for some confirmation perhaps. I have a marina just down the road and also have the option of mooring it out on the harbour in front of my condo but I'll worry about that closer to boat time. I also have a couple of heavier boats in my sights but I think as long as the 36 doesn't hold any ugly surprises it'll be tough to convince me away from it.

One of the site members that will probably be checking in was the factory racing guy for Ericson in that era and has a Very High opinion of the E-36RH. It has the internal grid scheme common to the 80's models for strength, and the hull-to-deck joint is glassed from the inside like all of the others as well. Well built even by any comparison to new boats.
It met the design guidelines of the IOR without the extreme stern "duck tail" that characterized many boats from other designers that were built to those guidelines/rule parameters.

Keep us in the loop. Hopefully we will see you at a Rendezvous this year or next!


Loren

 

[Want2GoSail]

I was a bit rushed this morning and forgot to answer a couple of questions. I will be single handing for the most part but will be sailing with my wife. She has less experience (none) than I do. We also have our cat who will likely be joining us. Thanks for your feedback and I will definitely keep in touch and perhaps if this one does pan out you will be seeing me at an upcoming rendezvous.

 

[Loren Beach]

I was a bit rushed this morning and forgot to answer a couple of questions. I will be single handing for the most part but will be sailing with my wife. She has less experience (none) than I do. We also have our cat who will likely be joining us. Thanks for your feedback and I will definitely keep in touch and perhaps if this one does pan out you will be seeing me at an upcoming rendezvous.

Some friends of ours at the YC recently completed a round trip cruise for several years down to Mexico, with their cat. Both of them are back in their home and so is the cat!
Boat is a customized Cascade 36. They said it all worked out fine. Just the two adult retirees. So, there's nothing amiss with your choice of a boat in that size range, and the Ericson is a "performance cruiser" much like the Cascade, too.

As for the size of the chosen boat, I would once have thought a 36 footer was kind of "big", but a year or so after moving up to our 34 from the prior Niagara 26, our O-34 seemed about right, and since I had more vacation time than did my wife in the 90's, I did a lot of single handing.
Larger boats have some a advantages of their own, being more stable to move around on while sailing. Your autopilot will be your 'best crew' even when you have other folks aboard. Only time you are aware of the size and general bulk is when approaching a dock in a cross wind...
but practice will lead to skills and increasing competence.
You will instantly get to liking the large galley and useable nav table.
That trick fold-up dining table is quite a design award winner, too. :nerd:


Loren

 

[Seth]

Which Ericson

Both are good, offshore capable boats. BTW, I do not believe there ever was a 34X. I see it shows up on sailboatdata, but that is really a 34R. Basically there were 2 versions of the 70's vintage 34; the flush or "blister" deck version, which was built really as a race boat with few concessions for headroom or interior space, and the T version which had a trunk cabin like most other Ericson performance cruisers. Both have traditional "offsore style" interiors. Both versions also had Tall and Short rig options. Are you looking at "Bluefin"? This is the R version. Looks clean, which is good as it is a bit pricey. Electric motor may not be ideal for passagemaking though. You would need a VERY thorough survey by someone who knows the issues with these boats,or evidence the bulkeads and chainplates were replaced or repaired. For local PNW sailing this is a great boat as it is (based on what I see in the ad).

The issue with the 70's vintage 34's, especially the "R' (X) version is that is relied on tradional bulkheads for structural reinforcement, and the chainplates tended to corrode over time. They are large on this boat and their condition must be monitored- many have had them replaced. If a rigorous maintenance program has been kept up (which is rare), the boat should be fine, but unless the boat has had major work done on these parts by now, it should have the work done before going offshore, and this is not cheap.

The 36RH, which came out in 80 or 81, uses the more modern, TAFG (Tri-axial force grid), Ericson's name for a grid structure which ties in the chainplates and keel loads to the hull stringers and bulkheads. The result is a very strong, but light hull which will flex less and maintain higher rig tension than boats built with the older technology. All things being equal, for your stated objectives, the 36RH is for sure the better choice over any version of the 70's vintage 34's. I repeat, a cherry, well maintained 34 will be fine, but the grid structure is a far better way to build boats which are going to be sailed offshore..

Either way, since you are somewhat new to this, do NOT get a fixer upper. Pay the $ for a boat which is truly ready for the sailing you want to do. Let's say you find a 34 in average condition for "x" dollars, and a 36 RH for double that, but generally in very good condition. You will spend far more than the difference in price to bring the older boat into proper condition

Happy Trails!

S

 

[Want2GoSail]

It's funny you mentioned a Cascade 36 Loren as that is one more in the area that I want to check out. I've read how many of them have been finished in odd ways so I'll be keeping that in mind when I get a chance to look at it. I've also read about the 'X' Seth and perhaps there was only one of them if any at all. Research gets a little fuzzy on that one. Anyway I appreciate all the input and I'll let you know which way I decide when it is done. If I have any more questions I'll be coming here.

 

[Seth]

X vs R

I am 99.9% sure Ericson never built anything (at least any production model) with an "X" designation, and certainly not in 1978. The only person I can think of who might know any different is Martin, but since I started there in 1980 and was also handled customer service (parts, troubleshooting, etc.) for all older models as well as current models, I am pretty sure I would remember an Ericson 'X" anything. I am getting old, so if Martin has other info I would defer to him, but I really think not. This boat in the ad is the race style deck version. The prototype for this boat, build in the early 70's in aluminum, was named "Cadre" and owned by Charlie Leighton, who at the time was a major shareholder in Ericson. It was strictly a race boat with no illusions of being any kind of a cruiser, and the first few production boats were also built just for racing. A few years after the first flush deck (R models) had been out, a trunk cabin version (T model), which was a bit cruisier, came out. I think 79 was the last year of this style 34.

I think this "X" thing, which can be found on a few Yacht Sales and boat data websites, is just bad info that just hangs around. COuld be something that was poorly transcribed from a yacht listing, or something like that.

Nice boats for sure- but have issues (as do many boats of this vintage) which need attention and care. They are quick and sail very well. That said, 36RH is simply a more modern boat in all respects and will be stronger, faster and carry a bit more weight (stores and cruising gear) without being aversely affected.

S

 

[Christian Williams]

I recommend taking a sailing course, crewing on cruising boat, and capsizing a sailing dinghy at least once before buying your first large cruising boat.

Yes, you can do it by jumping in cold. It will just be expensive, frustrating and the enthusiastic person who sells you the boat will have a secret smile.

 

[Seth]

Which Ericson

I recommend taking a sailing course, crewing on cruising boat, and capsizing a sailing dinghy at least once before buying your first large cruising boat.

Yes, you can do it by jumping in cold. It will just be expensive, frustrating and the enthusiastic person who sells you the boat will have a secret smile.

What Christian says! +1!

 

[Want2GoSail]

Thanks for the suggestions. I have taken my first few ISPA courses up until the offshore stuff and I do plan on crewing on race days here when I get a chance. I did a bit on the lake back where I used to live. The dingy I have yet to capsize. I'm putting myself on a bit of a fast track but hopefully asking lots of questions and not taking things too quickly I'll figure it out without it costing a fortune. I'm sure I'll make mistakes but at my age I tend to be a little more cautious so they should be relatively small ones.

 

[Christian Williams]

Sounds good. And, by the way, welcome to the ranks of committed sailors. It's rewarding, and it doesn't get old even as we do.

My point about dinghy experience is simple. A cruising boat weighs many tons and is slow to respond, and it masks all subtleties except to the very experienced sailor. It is like taking a course to improve driving skills taught in 18-wheeler semis. A sports car would be better and more fun.

A weekend in a tippy dinghy is worth a year of a cruising boat teaching you how to handle docklines and troubleshoot a diesel and schedule haulouts and create a to-do list 500 items long.

They are almost two different experiences entirely.

 

[Loren Beach]

Thanks for the suggestions. I have taken my first few ISPA courses up until the offshore stuff and I do plan on crewing on race days here when I get a chance. I did a bit on the lake back where I used to live. The dingy I have yet to capsize. I'm putting myself on a bit of a fast track but hopefully asking lots of questions and not taking things too quickly I'll figure it out without it costing a fortune. I'm sure I'll make mistakes but at my age I tend to be a little more cautious so they should be relatively small ones.

Hmmmm... "at my age"... when we bought the O-34, I was 50, and now 20 more years have got behind me... (to borrow a partial song lyric from Roger Waters.

If you can arrange it, I would also advise some crew time on a small responsive keel boat like the Cal 20 or a Martin 24, or similar.
More good news if you get the Ericson, it will handle like a bigger "small boat" rather than ponderously like many production boats in that size range. I recall one rendezvous when I was privileged to get a ride on an E-38. In light air it sailed and accelerated like a smaller boat. Solid, but still responsive. Way cool, actually; much like our nimble "little" O-34.

Cheers,
Loren

 

[Martin King]

Sounds good. And, by the way, welcome to the ranks of committed sailors. It's rewarding, and it doesn't get old even as we do.

My point about dinghy experience is simple. A cruising boat weighs many tons and is slow to respond, and it masks all subtleties except to the very experienced sailor. It is like taking a course to improve driving skills taught in 18-wheeler semis. A sports car would be better and more fun.

A weekend in a tippy dinghy is worth a year of a cruising boat teaching you how to handle docklines and troubleshoot a diesel and schedule haulouts and create a to-do list 500 items long.

They are almost two different experiences entirely.

Plus1. Go out in 15-20 in a laser. Turn turtle and recover for extra points. Best sailing school there is.

 

[Want2GoSail]

A few years back I promised myself that I'd be on the water sailing by the time I was 50 or I'd give up the dream. I took my lessons a couple of years ago and I should have my boat by summer. I turn 50 in September. I recently worked with an avid dinghy sailor and he convinced me to actually give it a try so I was planning on finding one to rent for a weekend and have a go. Now it seems to be an even better idea.

 

[mkollerjr]

Taking lessons, crewing on other peoples boats, and racing is all very good experience up to a point - learning the fundamentals, etc. I've felt that since having my own boat, taking it out short handed, and working on it, I've been learning things much faster than crewing. Crewing on a boat, you have a narrow task to perform. Taking your own boat out, you need to do everything! What? It was so easy taking that flogging main sail down with a crew of 8!

mark

 

[Rick R.]

That 36 sounds nice.

Welcome to the party and good luck with your new boat!

One day my wife and i decided to take sailing lessons together. Then we joined a sailing club. Then we bought our Ericson. We sail year round now going on four years. Our landlubber friends wonder what's happened to us....

 

[markvone]

I'll second most of what has been said previously. Learning to sail goes fastest on small, responsive boats where you get the "feel" of it.

The condition of any used boat is really the prime factor in it's value. It only takes one non-attentive owner in 35 years to really beat down the condition of a nice boat. You didn't mention how handy you are or how picky about condition. The more near-perfect you want the finished "project" boat to be and the less work you can do yourself (due to time or skill), the more it will cost and/or the more unsatisfied you will be. It absolutely WILL cost more time and/or money to make the "project" boat look like the more expensive "better" boat, even if you did everything yourself.

As for which Ericson. I don't know anything about the 34T/R except it's an older generation design.

The E36RH has a newer design and the TAFG construction. For light air sailing, I doubt any other Ericson save the 33RH would be better. The layout of the E36RH makes it very easy to access everything. This is nice when you or your marine services professional are crawling around all those areas doing repairs or replacement.

Since the E36RH was intended as a racer/cruiser when new, they tend to have nice sail handling gear. However, the condition of this gear needs to be checked. Also, all that gear mounted through the deck can lead to wet deck core if it has not been maintained. The age of these boats also means that they have LARGE headsails and HUGE symmetrical spinnakers. Managing these headsails takes skill and planning, not muscle.

Let me know if you have any specific questions.

They only built 32 of the E36RH so there are usually only one or two on the market at any given time. Do you have a link or info to the 1981 available in your area?

Mark