bigtyme805
Member III
I have a 1985 E30+ with an M-18 auxillary and need a new prop does anyone have any recommendations on what I should go with. I know nothing when it comes to this.
What prop should I buy
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Frank Langer
1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
You might get a more helpful recommendation if you could state how you use the boat (ie. cruising, racing, etc.) and what you have on there now, as well as whether you are looking to enhance or simply replace what you have.
Your thoughts on whether you are considering more than just a normal 3 blad prop--ie. a feathering or folding prop for improved performance.
I have a Varifold folding prop on my 1984 Ericson 30+, which works quite well. Various people have criticized folding props as being poor performers, especially in reverse gear (though obviously good due to less drag when sailing), but I haven't found that. There is some prop walk to port when I back out of our slip, but once I adjust for that, I have no problem with it. It does need to be cleaned periodically to ensure that the prop blades can fold freely without interference from algae or barnacles, but that's minor (I do it when I clean the hull and replace the prop zincs).
Good luck!
Frank.
Your thoughts on whether you are considering more than just a normal 3 blad prop--ie. a feathering or folding prop for improved performance.
I have a Varifold folding prop on my 1984 Ericson 30+, which works quite well. Various people have criticized folding props as being poor performers, especially in reverse gear (though obviously good due to less drag when sailing), but I haven't found that. There is some prop walk to port when I back out of our slip, but once I adjust for that, I have no problem with it. It does need to be cleaned periodically to ensure that the prop blades can fold freely without interference from algae or barnacles, but that's minor (I do it when I clean the hull and replace the prop zincs).
Good luck!
Frank.
E30+ prop
My 1981 30+ has a 13 inch two blade "Michigan prop", whatever that is.
Prop walk has been a major problem for me, probably mostly because of my lack of skills at the helm.
Our marina is very tight, and not well protected, so crosswinds are a big problem. Backing quickly and straight would help me a lot.
I have looked into a three bladed feathering prop, by talking to all the manufacturers at the Annapolis boat show.
I have been told that this boat was originally designed for an Atomic 4, with a higher revving 13 inch prop. There is not enough room between the prop and the bottom of the hull to put in a larger diameter prop, and no one could offer me a 13 inch feathering prop that would have suitable performance characteristics.
All of this is submitted as uncomfirmed, just what I have been told.
My 1981 30+ has a 13 inch two blade "Michigan prop", whatever that is.
Prop walk has been a major problem for me, probably mostly because of my lack of skills at the helm.
Our marina is very tight, and not well protected, so crosswinds are a big problem. Backing quickly and straight would help me a lot.
I have looked into a three bladed feathering prop, by talking to all the manufacturers at the Annapolis boat show.
I have been told that this boat was originally designed for an Atomic 4, with a higher revving 13 inch prop. There is not enough room between the prop and the bottom of the hull to put in a larger diameter prop, and no one could offer me a 13 inch feathering prop that would have suitable performance characteristics.
All of this is submitted as uncomfirmed, just what I have been told.
Have you looked at http://www.kiwiprops.co.nz/ ?? A couple people here on the board have them and like them. I am going to go for one when I get the coin up. FWIW, my E38 goes to port in reverse no matter what I do. If the Kiwi helps, Hallelujah! RT
WhiteNoise
Member III
The best of both worlds but $$$
I put a Max-Prop 15" 2-blade on my 1984 30+ this year. The only difference is that I have a Universal 5416.
It did fit the boat. Has great thrust, reverse nearly stops the boat now, and sailing spead had increased. Unfortunately it is very expensive ... though I got mine used for a bottle of rum. Guess it pays to have sailing friends.
Anyway, I have been very happy with it. Here's a copy of my email to PYI and their response to request the specs for pitch and angle:
-----------------------------------------------
I have a 2 blade Max-Prop that fits my boat and want to be sure it will
work with my boat/engine. Pitch suggestions, etc. The prop is roughly 15.5
inches end to end. I have an Atomic Universal Diesel 5416. It is 16hp with
a mx RPM of 2800 and a 2:1 transmission reduction. The boat has an
estimated 10k lb. displacement. Your help is greatly appreciated. Looking
forward to your response.
-Chris
Chris,
With that engine, transmission and prop diameter you need to set the pitch @
10 inches of pitch: 20 degrees of blade angle.
Frederic
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Hope that helps and good luck!
-Chris
I put a Max-Prop 15" 2-blade on my 1984 30+ this year. The only difference is that I have a Universal 5416.
It did fit the boat. Has great thrust, reverse nearly stops the boat now, and sailing spead had increased. Unfortunately it is very expensive ... though I got mine used for a bottle of rum. Guess it pays to have sailing friends.
Anyway, I have been very happy with it. Here's a copy of my email to PYI and their response to request the specs for pitch and angle:
-----------------------------------------------
I have a 2 blade Max-Prop that fits my boat and want to be sure it will
work with my boat/engine. Pitch suggestions, etc. The prop is roughly 15.5
inches end to end. I have an Atomic Universal Diesel 5416. It is 16hp with
a mx RPM of 2800 and a 2:1 transmission reduction. The boat has an
estimated 10k lb. displacement. Your help is greatly appreciated. Looking
forward to your response.
-Chris
Chris,
With that engine, transmission and prop diameter you need to set the pitch @
10 inches of pitch: 20 degrees of blade angle.
Frederic
-----------------------------------------------
Hope that helps and good luck!
-Chris
bigtyme805
Member III
I guess I should have said that I will not be racing just cruising. The feathering prop interested me but have heard that reverse is a challenge. I need to stop on a dime, downwind slip in Santa Barbara and quarters are tight. Right now she has a 2 blade and my diver told me the ends of the prop are starting to show wear and prop should be changed. I have heard going to a 3 blade would be the way to go but I don't know. Universal is no more and maybe I should contact Moyer Marine. The New Zealand thing won't work, not the right size. Cost is not an issue just finding the proper prop would suit me.
Interesting answer from PSC for your motor. Mine is a M-18 which calculates into 14hp. Maybe I will write them and see what they say.
A friend recommended Martec Folding props and this may be the way to go as long as reverse is good. If anybody knows about this company it would help me. Thanks
Interesting answer from PSC for your motor. Mine is a M-18 which calculates into 14hp. Maybe I will write them and see what they say.
A friend recommended Martec Folding props and this may be the way to go as long as reverse is good. If anybody knows about this company it would help me. Thanks
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prop size
I have to yield to White Noise' experience of fitting a 15 inch prop into the space.
I too have the 16 horse diesel, and the same specs he mentions.
I took some pictures this winter of the existing prop relative to the hull, to take to the boat show this fall, and revisit this issue with a manufacturer. It sure looks like there is not enough room.
I have to yield to White Noise' experience of fitting a 15 inch prop into the space.
I too have the 16 horse diesel, and the same specs he mentions.
I took some pictures this winter of the existing prop relative to the hull, to take to the boat show this fall, and revisit this issue with a manufacturer. It sure looks like there is not enough room.
u079721
Contributing Partner
Not sure what you have heard about the reverse performance of feathering props - sure you don't mean folding? Feathering props are typically as good in reverse as they are in forward. The reverse thrust of our three blade Max prop was so good that we couldn't use full reverse when entering the slip or we would start to back out before we could get it out of gear. We also had to be careful using full reverse thrust when setting the anchor untill it was truly well set or we would pull it out. Folding props have a reputation for poor performance in reverse largely because people don't use enough RPMs to unfold the blades quickly. Once unfolded they work quite well.
If you have a limit on the max diameter, then going to a three blade will increase thrust without changing diameter (unless you drop the pitch). Downside to the feather props is cost of course. Highly recommend you find a copy of Nigel Calder's Propeller Handbook and give it a read before investing many hundreds (or even thousdands) of dollars on a new prop.
bigtyme805
Member III
Steve that is valuable information. That is why I come to this site, to weed out all the stuff on docks. The feathering is my first choice. I will investigate closely before making a big purchase.
I believe this is prop used on original model of M18, still sold in England.
Yacht: Ericson Autoprop Model: H5-358
Engine: Universal M18 | BHP: 14 | RPM: 3200 | Gear Ratio: 2.05
I believe this is prop used on original model of M18, still sold in England.
Yacht: Ericson Autoprop Model: H5-358
Engine: Universal M18 | BHP: 14 | RPM: 3200 | Gear Ratio: 2.05
Feathering Prop
This discussion has led me to realize that I have been thinking of prop size as radius, rather than diameter, even though I have literally measured the prop with a ruler. My neural networks are not connecting.
There is slightly greater than one inch of clearance with my 13" prop from the hull. It might actually be 1 1/2".
Knowing that a 14" prop will only take up 1/2 inch of this clearance, it should certainly fit. Therefor a 14" feathering 3 blade prop would give me the performance I am looking for. I still am perplexed how a 15.5" prop fits, but perhaps the shaft is a hair longer????
The only question is how much clearance there need to be for optimum prop performance.
I did not know Nigel Calder had a prop book. I will certainly look for it.
This discussion has led me to realize that I have been thinking of prop size as radius, rather than diameter, even though I have literally measured the prop with a ruler. My neural networks are not connecting.
There is slightly greater than one inch of clearance with my 13" prop from the hull. It might actually be 1 1/2".
Knowing that a 14" prop will only take up 1/2 inch of this clearance, it should certainly fit. Therefor a 14" feathering 3 blade prop would give me the performance I am looking for. I still am perplexed how a 15.5" prop fits, but perhaps the shaft is a hair longer????
The only question is how much clearance there need to be for optimum prop performance.
I did not know Nigel Calder had a prop book. I will certainly look for it.
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=571&referrerid=28
One of many (!) threads here on feathering props. We still have the Martec we installed in '96. If you have limitations for diameter, add another blade...
A three blade is said to balance out much better, albeit for more $.
As others here have pointed out, you will be very pleased with reverse power with a featherer. In our case, most of the prop walk went away, and boat backs up with a lot more low speed torque, IMHO.
Best,
Loren
One of many (!) threads here on feathering props. We still have the Martec we installed in '96. If you have limitations for diameter, add another blade...
A three blade is said to balance out much better, albeit for more $.
As others here have pointed out, you will be very pleased with reverse power with a featherer. In our case, most of the prop walk went away, and boat backs up with a lot more low speed torque, IMHO.
Best,
Loren
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WhiteNoise
Member III
reverse has acually improved
I was only able to quickly scan the posts that followed mine so I apologize if this was already addressed.
Reverse actually improved with the addition of the MaxProp (feathering). The reverse issues you have heard about usually are in reference to folding props only.
IMHO whether racing or cruising, everyone like to go as fast as possible. That being said if you are looking to maximize comfort and speed/thrust a three blade is always more balanced (less vibration - no "prop thump") and a fixed 3 blade will be a heck of a lot less expensive than and 2-blade MaxProp ... granted they do make a 3-blade feathering, but now we're talking very expensive.
If you are really going for comfort and motor efficiency on a budget I would just get a good fixed 3-blade prop.
If you want to maximize sailing ability I have been nothing but pleased with the MaxProp and would suggest it to anyone. Their customer service was great, even though they knew I got it used and they made no money off me.
That's my 2 cents for what it's worth. Good luck!
I was only able to quickly scan the posts that followed mine so I apologize if this was already addressed.
Reverse actually improved with the addition of the MaxProp (feathering). The reverse issues you have heard about usually are in reference to folding props only.
IMHO whether racing or cruising, everyone like to go as fast as possible. That being said if you are looking to maximize comfort and speed/thrust a three blade is always more balanced (less vibration - no "prop thump") and a fixed 3 blade will be a heck of a lot less expensive than and 2-blade MaxProp ... granted they do make a 3-blade feathering, but now we're talking very expensive.
If you are really going for comfort and motor efficiency on a budget I would just get a good fixed 3-blade prop.
If you want to maximize sailing ability I have been nothing but pleased with the MaxProp and would suggest it to anyone. Their customer service was great, even though they knew I got it used and they made no money off me.
That's my 2 cents for what it's worth. Good luck!
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bigtyme805
Member III
I have contacted Martec today and I think I am going to go with a 3 blade feathering prop/bronze. They will give me the price, I needed to check the shaft diameter first. What do you think the cost will be? My guess is around $900.
bigtyme805
Member III
What is the shaft diameter for the 30+ with a Universal M18?
WhiteNoise
Member III
Mine was 1" but a caliper will easily clear that up for you. Definately something you want to be sure of.
Good luck!
Good luck!
If they have an "Autostream" featherer, three blade, at $900. I will take one too... In a heartbeat. (I would expect the current price on a 3-blade to be closer to 2K.)
Please keep us informed of the actual cash price. Maybe you can negotiate a "group discount" for all of the Ericson/Olson owners!
Loren
wurzner
Member III
I'm with Loren on this one, I think you will be closer to $2300. When I was prop shopping last year, I looked at all the 3 bladed feathering and the cost/value element forced me to buy the Kiwi prop. It was 1300 delivered to my door based on an expediated 1 week build time (they are all custom built using NC equipment to fab the Zytel blades). In all honesty, any good 3 bladed prop is going to more than meet your expectations. Im my case, I race a lot and it does make a difference in almost all conditions. Also, the vastly improved stopping and backing characteristics are amazing relative to a 2 bladed prop. We can see close to 3 knots of current in puget sound so motoring performance is important, but backing and stopping are critical for getting into slips in the marina during challenging tides conditions; you really need to come in hot and lock it up.
I motored back with a 34, 38, and 39 a few weeks ago following the rendez vous. I know the 38 has a max or autoprop and based on our motoring speeds, both props moved the boat fine ( I don't know what the 39 had for a prop).
Please post what you get and what it ended up costing you.
regards
shaun
I motored back with a 34, 38, and 39 a few weeks ago following the rendez vous. I know the 38 has a max or autoprop and based on our motoring speeds, both props moved the boat fine ( I don't know what the 39 had for a prop).
Please post what you get and what it ended up costing you.
regards
shaun
props
Hi Shaun, if you are referring to Mischief Maker, our 38, she has a fixed 2 blade. Dick's 39 has a 2 blade Maxi. not sure who the 34 was. We made it to Tacoma by about 9:00 pm. Used up all the tide. I had a Maxi 3 blade on my prev. e 30+ and a univ. 18 hp. Loved it. Harold.
Hi Shaun, if you are referring to Mischief Maker, our 38, she has a fixed 2 blade. Dick's 39 has a 2 blade Maxi. not sure who the 34 was. We made it to Tacoma by about 9:00 pm. Used up all the tide. I had a Maxi 3 blade on my prev. e 30+ and a univ. 18 hp. Loved it. Harold.
bigtyme805
Member III
Martek emailed me and could not offer me a feathering prop based on the 13 x 10 dimension that I needed they only do 15 but offered me the 2 blade folding prop to fit. The cost for that was 659. I did not even ask the price for the 3 blade feather, but estimate it was 2,100. So I am back to square one, really do want a 3 blade prop so if anybody knows a company that makes a 13x10 3 blade feathering prop please let me know. Also, dove and found out my shaft size is 1".