West Coast Cat Disaster

[ted_reshetiloff]

Any of you guys on the left coast see this one? I heard you folks had some weather a while back but man to must have been bad...




http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/12/16/BAGI9N0S921.DTL

 

[wurzner]

My boat was healing 10~15 degrees and that was tied off between 2 boat houses in a E-W orgientation with wind coming from SSE. We saw 70's in the marina...it was pretty intense. It is really sad about the sailors, but I have to question why anyone would consider a trip up the coast this time of year. Regardless of boat or crew, you just don't do that trip this time of year in my opinion. From SF up the coast offers very little protection to duck in...maybe 3 or 4 places at most. The straights of Juan du Fuca saw 90+ winds and massive seas.

too bad to the cat crew, but the PNW coast can be very ugly and deadly. They lost one climber and they may be 2 more on Mt Hood. Winds on the montain were ~100+.

We were without electricity from Thursday to Sunday and are lucky that was the extend of it.

Regards
shaun

 

[rwthomas1]

Hmmm, isn't the standard practice to stay aboard a capsized cat as most of them have positive bouyancy? Get in, sit down and hold on? What the heck was the EPIRB doing in a locker? Not too prepared it seems.... That sucks. RT

 

[lbertran]

Cat had Professional Delivery Crew

The boat was built in South Africa and was sold through an Annapolis charter and sales company that represents the builder. They hired a professional crew to bring it to Seattle, where the boat's owner lives, from South Africa. They had stopped in San Francisco and left on Dec 8 bound for Seattle.
Laura Bertran

 

[lbertran]

CG Has Ended Search For Crew

Here's a link to the latest news story:

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/12/19/BAG8JN28GF1.DTL

 

[Roger Ware]

horrific photo

There was a horrific photo of the beached cat in yesterday's lectronic latitude, at http://www.latitude38.com/LectronicLat/2006/1206/Dec18/Dec18.html#anchor1085433
As others have said, the mystery is why they left the boat. Trying to save one who had been washed overboard, perhaps?

Roger Ware
Kingston, ON

 

[rbonilla]

that's weird....EPIRB locked in a locker??
the events must have been hectic...i guess it is
easy to be a arm chair qtrback after the fact.....


"Inspection of the interior found few clues. The last log entry at 3 a.m. on December 11 had the boat 10 miles off Cape Blanco, and noted the crew had struck all sails and deployed two anchors. Unfortunately, the EPIRB was locked in a box. The only other clue found was a piece of line tied to the starboard saildrive (visible in the close-up below), which implies that at least one of the crew was alive after the boat capsized."

 

[Brisdon]

I've been out on legs of trips that would have been better postponed. It's scary how hard it is to stop forward motion once plans are in gear. Oregon Coast, December, Catamaran. Any two of these things together is probably OK, but all three together sound bad to me. Really bad. Bad, bad, bad.

 

[Bob in Va]

dire straits

In my archives I have a letter written by my dad in early 1953 when he was navigator on the aircraft carrier USS Point Cruz. They had been fitted out in Bremerton and sailed from there down to San Diego. He said the winds and seas going through the Juan de Fuca straits were hard to believe. The captain had allowed some of the crew to transport their cars down to SD by loading them aboard the ship and tieing them down on the flight deck. The ship took so much salt spray over the deck that most of the cars had severe rust, etc. when they arrived. Dad was glad he had not accepted the offer of free shipping for our Oldsmobile.

 

[Roger Ware]

multihulls for ocean crossings?

I know we are all monohull sailors here by virtue of our logo, but some of us have probably strayed to multihull fantasies in weaker moments. I wonder, given this disaster and another (very experienced) Brit who abandoned a catamaran last year off Central America somewhere - would listers here attempt a major ocean crossing in a multihull?

happy holidays to all Vikings

Roger, Kingston, ON

 

[Guy Stevens]

It all depends.

Just a note about my experiences, I am in no way saying that they are anything other than my personal experiences.

Having done an ocean or two on a Cat, and one longer coastal hop in a tri, I can say that I don't much like the motion of them. They are not at all faster if they are loaded up for cruising, Monos seem to shoulder the load much better. They stay relatively flat, and for some people that is key to their comfort, personally I find that taking every wave 2 times or three times instead of just once, really is not my cup of tea.

Room wise a lot of people seem to like them, but the ones that I have been on have all seemed to lack for good storage. Then again I rate everything to an Ericson 39 or and Ericson 46, both of which I could probably store a complete other 40' boat behind the settees.

Guy

 

[rwthomas1]

I grew up in the Carribean and while I learned to sail on small dinghys, etc. catamarans were everywhere and most larger boats were cats or tris. Until we bought our E38 all my big boat experience was cats and tris. I prefer the lack of heel especially if I have to spent time below. My E38 can be miserable underway compared to my recollection of cats and tris in decent weather. The thought of a holed monohull is fairly creepy to me. That heavy ballast pulls them straight to the bottom. Most cats and tris remain positively bouyant even after structural failure. I would rather float with or maybe on the wreckage than be stuck in the water or in a liferaft. At least there is the possibility of making a choice of staying with the wreckage or using the liferaft option.

The problem I see with cats and tris is that the cruising designs are overloaded to the point that all the advantages of these designs are negated. Most of them are just big, flat floating condos. A properly designed tri or cat will be much faster than a mono provided it is not overloaded. But this is a compromise. That speed means you have to live with less comforts, less space, etc. Its a tradeoff. The speed also means you spend less time on getting there and more time enjoying the destination. I really like the Corsair 31 trimaran. Even loaded for cruising it will be much faster than my E38. But I would be giving up a shower, decent galley, cold storage space, tankage, etc.

Its a tradeoff but I wouldn't hesitate to jump on a multihull for a passage provided I trusted the boat and skipper. RT

 

[Ernest]

West Coast disaster

Just for everyone's info, that British cat that was abandoned off Central America was found stripped of all valuables and afloat 60 miles off Hawaii. That means it survived the storm, and stayed afloat with no crew for over 2000 miles. It was towed in by a fishing boat!.

 

[Phil MacFarlane]

I grew up in the Carribean and while I learned to sail on small dinghys, etc. catamarans were everywhere and most larger boats were cats or tris. Until we bought our E38 all my big boat experience was cats and tris. I prefer the lack of heel especially if I have to spent time below. My E38 can be miserable underway compared to my recollection of cats and tris in decent weather. The thought of a holed monohull is fairly creepy to me. That heavy ballast pulls them straight to the bottom. Most cats and tris remain positively bouyant even after structural failure. I would rather float with or maybe on the wreckage than be stuck in the water or in a liferaft. At least there is the possibility of making a choice of staying with the wreckage or using the liferaft option.

The problem I see with cats and tris is that the cruising designs are overloaded to the point that all the advantages of these designs are negated. Most of them are just big, flat floating condos. A properly designed tri or cat will be much faster than a mono provided it is not overloaded. But this is a compromise. That speed means you have to live with less comforts, less space, etc. Its a tradeoff. The speed also means you spend less time on getting there and more time enjoying the destination. I really like the Corsair 31 trimaran. Even loaded for cruising it will be much faster than my E38. But I would be giving up a shower, decent galley, cold storage space, tankage, etc.

Its a tradeoff but I wouldn't hesitate to jump on a multihull for a passage provided I trusted the boat and skipper. RT

You got that right. If I ever get another boat it will be a fast tri. Theres a lot of them racing around now, so there should be a good used market now or soon. Sailing on a friends F-27 in SF Bay, 17 knots through the water in 19 knots ap. wind

Phil

 

[wurzner]

For all the Pro Cat Comments- How about Pitch Poleing?

I love cat's for what they are and have owned 5 of them, albeit not ocean going ones. None the less, I would be curious to hear your position on what the righting movement is on one when you role it mid crossing? To think that that won't happen is while...I believe this thread adequately explains my viewpoint. Having pitch poled numerous times and have the scares to prove it, I can tell you it isn't a lot of fun and just like broaching a keelboat, it comes up quick and once its started, you are screwed? I'd much rather take my chances on a monohull anyday.

Also, when we came through race rocks during the 2006 Swiftsure this year, we wiped out as did the catamaran ahead of us. The only difference is we broached and tore our chute. They turtled and lost the boat (and luckily that a video crew was setting up for race photos at ~6 am) not their lives!
I love Cat's and enjoyed racing them, but don't think for a second a cruising is not apt to the same situation (IMHO).

Check out the link for amazing footage of what I'm taking about.

Shaun

http://www.pacificfog.net/Temp/CatSass.swf

 

[rbonilla]

wow, nice photos wrzner...thanx....it looks hectic on the
cat.....

 

[NateHanson]

eek! :eek:

That's quite a crash. The skipper looks like he fell about 15 feet onto the mast. Good thing nobody was hurt. Always amazing when things like that are caught on film. I recall a couple years ago one of the Volvo Ocean Race boats coming into Sydney was filmed by a helicopter crew as it did a spectacular death-roll to windward with the chute up. Does anyone know if that video is still available somewhere?

Nate

 

[Phil MacFarlane]

I love cat's for what they are and have owned 5 of them, albeit not ocean going ones. None the less, I would be curious to hear your position on what the righting movement is on one when you role it mid crossing? To think that that won't happen is while...I believe this thread adequately explains my viewpoint. Having pitch poled numerous times and have the scares to prove it, I can tell you it isn't a lot of fun and just like broaching a keelboat, it comes up quick and once its started, you are screwed? I'd much rather take my chances on a monohull anyday.

I'm not pro Cat. I'm pro Tri. Yes I know they can pitch pole and or turtle also but ...
Sailing from what I've seen is more dangerous than sitting on the couch watching tv. I guess we all decide where to draw our own line of comfort.
I've sailed to and from Hawaii from San Francisco three times now. That doesn't give me the experience of a circumnavigation or cruising for ten years but for the kind of sailing I am interested in, I think a tri would fit.

I've had my 1971 E-35 since late 89. My wife and I sailed in SF Bay every weekend for years and years. We have done three sails to Mexico. Then I got into racing and have been racing now for years and years. All of my trips to Hawaii have been single handed trans pac races.

My wife doesn't lke to spend that much time sailing any more which I totally understand. I am perfectly happy doing my local weekend racing and every few years racing to Hawaii and sailing back. Summer is when we sail to Hawaii and it's also hurricane season. I would rather have a shot at out running bad weather in a fast tri than relying on my tough but very old and used 35 to get me home. I wouldn't want anything smaller than 35-40 feet in a tri and bigger would be better.

The poor people on the cat in this story could not have picked a worse time to go up the west coast in the worst possible boat for the job. RIP sailors.

In a perfect world I will keep Sail a Vie for ever and some day get a good used racing tri or build my own.

I can dream can't I ?

Cheers

Phil

 

[Roger Ware]

Farrier F-39

Phil - would you consider something like a Farrier F-39 safe enough to get you to Hawaii and back? Is there a sensible way of comparing stability between cats and tris - presumably for the same beam the cat must be more stable, with a greater moment of inertia, but then the tri would generally have a greater beam?

Roger, Kingston, ON

 

[Phil MacFarlane]

Hi Roger,

I'm sure there is a way to compare the numbers, but I don't know what it is.

I would consider an F-39 good enough for Hawaii. Gary Helms our local Corsair ( F-Boat ) dealer did the single handed trans pac in a F-31R.
Later he flipped and lost that boat in a local Farallones race.

A yacht broker friend of mine says "sooner or later all those multi hull guys flip" I don't think that's really true but I know theres a good chance. Like I said we all make our own choices and being able to out run weather weighs heavily in my book. Not to mention being first to finish

The cats that are being sold today are like floating condos. For space and comfort they are great but thats not what I'm interested in. I have the 35 for cruising and that suits me just fine. The tri would be for racing, I wouldn't care about creature comforts in a tri, just speed.

I'm sure I don't have to point out that tri's are being raced around the world every day now both single handed and fully crewed and most of them make it.

Cheers

Phil